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It's a complex issue for sure, but I'm really proud of this thread for consistently using the term "trans women" when talking about the differences between trans women compared to cis women and cis men in sports.
On Reddit, most people on this debate just say "biological males," "males," or "men" in situations where they're clearly talking about trans women, which is a clear tell that it was never about fairness in sports for them.
I stay out of that fight because I don't know enough about the real statistics to comment on it. Which I feel like would drastically improve the situation if all these armchair "bIoLoGiCaL aDvAnTaGe" people would do the same.
I still don't understand why the government needs to be involved in sports at all. They're games, it's not that serious. Leave it to the experts within those organizations to come up with whatever rules are needed.
America has a reputation at being the "best" at everything always. That's why government is involved in sports in general, but as to the trans women topic it's because we're in a full on fascist takeover and they're number one on their list of people to "purify"
Sports is used as a revenue generator at all levels of government. Look how much taxpayer money is spent to build stadiums/arenas/etc. for the sake of the "local economy." Not to mention all the money spent on advertising and sponsorship.
All of which, of course, has nothing to do with lawmakers' arbitrary decisions on whether or not trans athletes should exist. Just wanted to point out how much the government is already involved in sports.
I mean if it were up to me they'd be paying for their own stadiums. The rest of it is just taxation which applies to pretty much everything.
Bread
And
Circuses <--- you are here
I'm not convinced it's as complex as people pretend it is, largely because the number of clearly dominant trans athletes are so low. Maybe we haven't seen a problem already because there simply isn't a problem, even if you could theoretically tell a story that sounds somehow "unfair" depending on your storytelling skills.
Yeah, they sure do love pulling the Riley Gaines card even though she came in fifth, making it a total nonsequitur.
And I totally agree that this debate is too big considering it only targets a tiny handful of athletes. I say it's complicated because some arguments used feel, circumstantial? As in, "Trans women should play with women because there's only a couple of them anyway?" Would acceptance of that argument lead to tokenism? BWhat if, for whatever reason, a sports team happened to take on a lot of trans woman? I think that would be okay, but I worry it would dredge the debate up all over again.
Or, people often say, "Trans women should be allowed to play with women because they rarely win anyway." But what if a trans woman ends up on a winning streak and then another controversy erupts? I feel uncomfortable that our condition for entry is framed as our failure to win, and that if we win, then by implication we get othered as opposed to just being a woman who won a sports game one time. This recently happened, actually. https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/ca-school-sports-authority-panders
This is to say, I'm just thinking aboug how we come to a supporting argument that ages with grace? And what argument should that be? Not that I think any pro-trans argument would satisfy some people, with it being the wedge issue that makes TERFS out of people originally left of center. I guess I don't know the answer at this point.
Idk but usually starting somewhere like "there are ten transgender athletes in all NCAA sanctioned college sports across the entire country" points out how fucking stupid legislating on this issue really is. You can feel whatever way you want to feel about it but this is a made up issue being used to restrict rights. Simple as.
Its not complicated at all.
Trans folks are just folks. Takes all kinds. Mind your own business.
People who can't mind their own business are assholes. And should be treated like the assholes they are.
Not to mention just how blatantly disrespectful it is to not treat people how they want to be treated. Republicans love to pull a bible out of their gaping holes when it suits them right? Luke 6:31-36.
Fundies largely ignore the New Testament, especially anything Jesus is quoted as saying (they're more in line with St Paul, especially the Epistles that he probably didn't write) and they aggressively cherry-pick the Old. For example, they're always wearing clothing made of mixed fiber types, so they're going to burn in hell: it's an abomination according to Leviticus. And all the requirements to welcome foreigners among you, and requiring extreme hospitality to strangers: they just pretend that part isn't there.
And as for the Old Testament (the Tanakh) itself, the Jews, over millennia, developed a whole apparatus of analysis and exegesis (the Talmud) to take the various fairy tales, genealogies, records of the actions of kings and prophets, poems and nationalistic history and try to draw conclusions as to what they're telling us. The fundies, in their arrogance, instead believed that anyone could interpret a translation of those texts with no context, no critical thought, and no use of reason, as long as they pretended they believed hard enough. They're like the Sovereign Citizen morons interpreting case law as though it's based on magic phrases.
Oh. Fucking Reddit is so fucked. That place has fully embraced the scum. All meaningful conversation there is absolutely dead, conservatives have absolutely poisoned the well and nobody is open for business even if they want to be. Even good mods are 100% scorched earth, which can be nice, but sometimes the questions are genuine and the person they're having a convo with can easily destroy them. But because there's so much sockpuppeting and astroturfing and just shitty behavior, most people are now deaf and lazy, and even in the same comment threads, it becomes an echo chamber of two idiots trying to appeal to the audience with mic drops.
Even if it weren't totally cooked from admins to culture, reddit is unreliable, untrustworthy, and functionally useless.
"I found the right echo chamber!"
If you care about accuracy, things like details might matter to you.