this post was submitted on 19 May 2025
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Apparently, you're right on that.
FWIW:
wp:Lies, damned lies, and statistics
So what are you saying, that a Californian progressive who voted for Stein made a dumb choice and the one who voted for Harris made the smart choice? Are you saying that not supporting or voting for leftist competition for the Democrats, and working in the system of supporting the contender who wins the Democrat candidacy, will expedite reforms, including election reforms, more quickly. Did Harris even publicly utter the phrases "ranked balloting" or "proportional representation" in 2024?
What points? Third parties bad, lesser evil good, because vote-splitting?
In some states, the risk might be worth it in the Presidential elections.
What if in the 2028 US Presidential election, the GOP nominates Lisa Murkowski for President, the Democrats nominate Biden, who recovered to having the cognitive and speech abilities that he had in January 2022, and Joe Manchin as his running mate? Let's also say Stein runs again, after condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine, paid a visit to Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Kherson, and shook hands with Zelenskyy; in September of that year was polling 15%; and you're a voting citizen of a state that since 2000 averaged a >10% plurality in Presidential elections?
Hypothetical, but still, who would you vote for?
Blue states are the area where my argument is weakest, but honestly as a means of voting against Trump I'd probably still vote Harris if I lived in Cali. I'm less judgemental of people in solid blue states here voting third party, but I still think voting third party even then introduces future risk of vote splitting, but its a gaussian and temporal risk. So its hard to conceptualize.
Further, doing so and openly stating you intend to do so encourages people in purple and red states to potentially do the same. And lets be completely honest here: third party voters are going to be incredibly vocal about their vote. Third party and non-voters fucking love jerking themselves off about how virtuous they are for not voting for Harris.
I don't know. But not for fucking Jill Stein and can tell you that much. I wouldn't trust her 180 on Ukraine at all and there are other stances of hers I think are dumb. Nor would I likely bother with a different third party. I'd probably look look very closely at my options between red and blue. And I'd probably grit my teeth and vote for Biden depending on how he campaigned but I'd not be nearly as terrified since Trump is out of the picture.
And that's the rub: in your scenario fascism is not on the ballot. The stakes are significantly lower. So the details would matter more.
I don't think she did, but neither did Trump. And in fact Trump is largely interested in destroying what little democracy we have.
I'm going to be honest though, it might as well all be hypothetical. Americans are fucked. Its game over, and we very very much deserve what's coming.
I'm not just saying blue states: New Hampshire was blue, but only because Harris got fewer than 25 000 more votes than Trump; so yes, voting for Harris in states like New Hampshire is far more forgivable. Ditto "solid blue states": at the risk of pedantry, that could mean blue reps, blue senators, blue governors, but being purple in the vote for President.
I also include red states with big pluralities. If you're a progressive who lives in, say, Wyoming, West Virginia, or Alabama, the people you vote for President are probably not going to win your state for the next few decades, so you might as well vote for a more-progressive-than-the-Democrat candidates—vote your heart.
It feels good, man.
Thanks for answering. 😁🙂
But Trump and RFK, Jr at least went to the Libertarian convention, and Chase got a little over 1/3rd the votes JoJo got.
Imagine Biden or Harris went to a Green Party convention. I can see many of the older Democratic party insiders reaching for their pills, buffers, or defibrillators. 😁
The US had tough times before.
I was in greater despair over the US about 20 years ago.
Then either you are a fascist or you aren't paying attention.
EDIT: Or an accelerationist. In which case also still just a fascist but a more delusional one.
4th option: I've read a bit of history.
What Israel is doing to Gaza is minor compared to what the US did to Iraq. Then Obama came along.
Decades before that, the US did worse to Indochina than the aforementioned combined, but it ended under a Republican President—the same one who dined with Mao.
80 years and a few weeks ago, Hitler murdered a a despicable tyrant.
Presumably Germany recovered less than 20 years after that.
You are OK with death and suffering if there is a light at the end of a tunnel. You are a psychopath who views individuals as disposable as long as humanity/civilization benefits in the long run.
no.
If you think we were worse off 20 years ago, you either are a psychopath or you are clueless.
Life is going to get a whole hell of a lot worse for a fuck ton of people because Trump won. Way more than during W. Bush.
What's going to happen in the next 45 months, particularly in the US?