this post was submitted on 06 May 2025
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Late Stage Capitalism
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
reading that article, I mostly read that's it's debated and that what the famine were weaponized. Also, commentary on communism being the cause of them is largely dependent on the critic eye
Uh... Who the hell cares about any of that? Whether the Soviets shirked their responsibility to keep their (forcibly incorporated, mind you) subjects fed due to malice or malice-fueled incompetence matters about as much as whether the IDF is mass-murdering Gazans because they want to mass murder Gazans or because they're bombing any target their shitty AI gives them.
yeah so… we're talking about weather to put all the blame on communism in general. Communism is an ideology, not a government ?
The OP says communists, not communism so I'm not sure what brought that on.
You can fly the hammer and sickle the same way you can fly the US flag, or the Chinese, or UK, or Turkish flags.
The difference being having a flag under which atrocities were done, vs having a flag that represents the reason behind those atrocities.
Uhhh... Who's going to tell them what the official national flag of Germany was from 1935 to 1945?
Me?
Yes. Who's going to tell you that the black swastika in a white circle in a red rectangle was the official flag of Nazi Germany's government? This is the flag "under which atrocities were done", i.e. under which the Holocaust happened and under which Germany plunged the world into WWII. If your argument is that this isn't "a flag under which atrocities were done" but rather "a flag that represents the reason behind those atrocities", then why doesn't the hammer and sickle represent the reason behind the Holodomor? Behind all the other extreme atrocities committed by the USSR? Otherwise, if your argument is that it is a flag under which atrocities were done like the hammer and sickle, and you're saying the hammer and sickle are fine to fly, then what's the difference with flying the flag of Nazi Germany? I don't think either of these despicable flags should be flown, to be clear, but I'm asking why you take exception here based on your own argument (or, if you don't take exception, what the hell is wrong with you).
Basically what I'm saying is that your rationale of "having a flag under which atrocities were done, vs having a flag that represents the reason behind those atrocities" makes zero sense and is comparing functionally the same thing.
it’s perfectly clear in my first comment.
Atrocities were committed under the US flag. Do you think it shouldn’t be flown? The same way for the UK, China, Netherlands etc should all those flags be forbidden?
The reasoning is clear. Those flags represent much more than just those atrocities. The nazi flag doesn't. The same way the Confederation flag also doesn't.
The hammer and sickle is flown in plenty of places not in defense of atrocities like holodomor but for many other reasons. And you will find that the people flying that symbol will generally agree and not defend Holodomor.
Also because communism is an ideology and not a movement of one country only.
Where I’m from the hammer and sickle is a symbol of liberation and workers rights for example.
I mean, Stalinism wasn't communism, so that's a fair point.
Reminds me of the "real capitalism has never been tried" that right-wing libertarians retreat to when you point out the massive flaws which occur under capitalism – namely that those ills are the product of bastardizing capitalism with government regulation ("crony capitalism"). Where of course they get to dictate exactly what "real capitalism" is against the consensus of historians and economists– usually pure laissez-faire capitalism.
That is a pretty wild generalisation to make. From me claiming one person that pretended to be a communist wasn't to somehow me being a... Soviet fanboy or something? Stalin and Mao both committed atrocities, pretending to be something they aren't. China keeps doing it to this day, as does DPRK. Lenin wasn't a saint folks over at .ml pretend he was either. People get corrupted by power, it happens depressingly often under any political ideology.