this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2025
871 points (80.0% liked)
Memes
49990 readers
1 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yup. According to polls, the number one reason people abstained or voted third-party was Biden/Harris handling of Gaza. It’s either an ignorant or arrogant choice, depending on their awareness of Trump’s sociopathy and unwavering support of Netanyahu.
It wasn’t a small downward shift though. It was greater than the amount Harris lost by, if you count the increase in third-party votes.
I agree. Whether it was ignorance or arrogance, the Democrats are entirely responsible for driving so many people away from the polls and squandering what could otherwise have been a shoe-in for Harris.
Or dumbasses are responsible for the fascist takeover here.
Dems aren't great but it you couldn't be convinced to vote here it's not on them.
But yeah, keep making excuses for lazy people not doing their civic duty. It's working out great.
"it's not the candidates job to convince people to vote for them" is a wild take.
It's also a wild take that nonvoters aren't responsible for this fascist takeover. As if you needed more convincing somehow.
Lol. Who is responsible for the fascist takeover? The fascists?
No, the non voters
Both honestly.
Everyone but the infallible Democrats
You mean like the Democrats?
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
You've got that precisely backwards.
It is not the job of voters to vote correctly, it's the party's job to convince the voting population that they are worth voting for.
The Republicans are really effective at this because they can lie and cheat and overpromise on anything and their base will love them for it. Democrats are remarkably ineffective because they can't promise anything that might raise taxes on their campaign financiers.
If you want the Democrats to stop losing, then they need to fear losing your vote more than they fear offending billionaires. The only way to do that is to threaten to withhold your vote.
And it's working! AOC and Bernie's rally tours have more people excited about the Democrats than there have been since Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the DNC kicked Bernie out of the 2016 primary. AOC is a front-runner for the 2028 election, the campaign for which appears to have already started.
Yeah it's working! Everything is burning down. It's great!
But Im sure people like you think we can just undo all this calamity in a few years huh?
Reality is this current backwards turn won't be fixed in our lives, let alone progressing forward. Dumbest fucking gamble ever.
Don't misunderstand, I live in a solid blue state. Whether or not I made good on my threat to abstain from voting is an entirely moot question for the presidential election. As far as the electoral college is concerned, my voting power went to Harris.
And it's been inevitable since the DNC decided to fuck Bernie and push establishment candidates back in late 2015.
It's a waste of rage to blame the voters for their obvious response, as every election since then was cynically forseeable. The party would fuck around in 2020 and win anyway because Trump was awful, continue fucking around during their administration because "bipartisanship", and now we get to find out if we get to have elections again or how long it takes America to descend into it's own unique brand of fascism.
Of course not, but the Democrat Party chose this future. They had every opportunity to avoid this path, but they have always preferred the negative peace that is the absence of tension to the positive peace that is the presence of justice.
There is no undoing this now, the American Empire is over and just hasn't realized it yet. We have reached The Cool Zone™ and the only question that remains is how we'll organize to survive the years ahead. If the Democrats won't lead the resistance then we'll have to do it ourselves.
I agree, and so do a lot of people who are unhappy with the Democrat party these days. They gambled on another pro-establishment, "everything is fine, nothing will change" campaign when they know they win when they run a "hope and change" campaign. They lost, we get to pay the price, and too much of the party leadership joins you in blaming the voters instead of taking responsibility for their own leadership.
But hey, at least the new chair of the DNC is starting to point in the right direction, and might not even stomp out a popular candidate this time: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/18/dnc-chair-outlines-pro-worker-union-focus
All blah blah blah. The NONVOTERS chose this with the fascists.
But keep ignoring all semblance of responsibility with your head in the sand.
Again, I'm not telling you whether or not I went through with it. You're assuming that I didn't vote and getting very angry at me instead of at the people who had actual power to do something and chose not to rock the boat.
Divisive rhetoric like playing the blame game is not productive and serves only to help the fascists waste our time. Being mad at people isn't going to convince them that they voted wrong, it only cements the opinion that you can't be reasoned with.
What we need now is Truth and Reconciliation, and to get that we have to have power, and to get that we have to have organization. Take all that disparate, individual rage and point it in a useful direction. Go join a union. If there isn't one at your workplace, start it.
Im Not mad at you if you voted. Im pointing out excusing nonvoters never works, as evidenced.
Maybe if nonvoters ever came out we could've given Democrats more than the thinnest of majorities twice in a few decades and had more progress.
Why is that so hard to agree with? Again, if progressivism is so popular then why can't people turn out and overtake the Democrat party?
I am doing something. Im fighting against this idea it's all Democrats fault when they were barely given any power to begin with and no one cared to vote in primaries for Anyone better.
That's a failure of nonvoters, period. Stop with the excuses so that no one ever feels THEY are responsible for all this horseshit we see today. THAT is counterproductive.
I'm not asking you to excuse them, I'm asking you to stop casting blame to try and feel better about this sorry situation we're in. Doing something to help someone who's hurting right now will make you feel much better
"If only" is the trap of grief. Denial, anger, and bargaining all rolled into one. We're all grieving for the future we could have had, and you deserve the chance to grieve in your own way, but lashing out won't lessen your own pain.
Because it's an impossible demand that tries to blame a hundred million people for failing to overcome all the various impediments to voting. You might as well blame the moon for all the good that will do.
Because the Democrat party is more conservative than it is progressive, but the opportunity to change that is right now.
What primary? The Democrats didn't hold one this election...
You aren't fighting an idea. Ideas can't be fought, we either hold on to them or we abandon them. If you want people to abandon the idea that it was the Democrats' fault then you're going to need more than just blame, you're going to need evidence so overwhelming it can blot out people's personal feelings on the matter and a culprit with meaningful culpability.
You're doing that right now, making excuses for your own powerlessness by casting blame. I had 10 years to come to terms with what you're feeling today (including a six month prepper phase before I reached the last phase of acceptance), so trust me when I say you won't feel any better about it until you get away from your screens, get out of your bubble, and go make a difference in someone else's life. Everyone else who's suffering right now feels alone and helpless, even the smallest gesture of solidarity might be the boost they need to pay your kindness forward tenfold.
You have far more power than you know. Don't let the horrors lull you into despair. Let them radicalize you into being the change you want to see in the world.
Blah blah blah- it's the Democrats, not the people who never turn out. And I mean ANY PRIMARY. Turns out there were PLENTY of people to vote for in the primary- just not the incumbent president. If any of those people were voted in maybe the Dems would have power to stop this insanity.
That is all your stuff boils down to though. It's not the PEOPLE'S fault. It's always "those guys over there." Good luck with forever excusing apathy and see how far it gets you. I'm sure any day now it'll turn around..
You guys are forever waiting for someone else to do something for you (ie. the Democrats.) It's like training a dog- YOU have to put the work in. And by you I mean all the nonvoters. But hey- don't listen to evidence that elections matter. Not like we had the ACA while imperfect that drastically improved fortunes for millions. But hey- everyone tuned right back out, didn't show up to do anything to give Obama and co. more than a few months of a majority and thus we're where we're at now. Again- people didn't show up.
But yeah- keep excusing them for not getting their pretty pony and being ok with them sitting out. It's not their fault of course that they don't vote in primaries. It's because the party doesn't somehow know how to capture every single little thing that 340 million people across a vast nation want. It's the Democrats fault they don't know what people want when people don't take the sum total of an hour each year to go vote and let them know.
I'm not acting like there aren't impediments to voting like voter suppression, etc. I'm just not excusing people from doing it anyway. They can- they choose not to. It's not like voter suppression is responsible for 90 MILLION people not voting. Come off it already.
Anyway, have a good one.
People like you are why the Democrats don't even bother trying, too wrapped up in their own sense of self-righteousness to do anything that might shift the status quo:
People like you are the reason we're here- excusing all inaction. Great job.
I'm literally here telling you to stop playing the blame game and go do something, and you're getting mad at a random stranger on the internet.
Physician, heal thyself.
You're still at this? Pathetic.
And who is punishing someone? I'm asking you to simply assign some blame to those responsible- nonvoters.
If that is "punishing" someone, then you yourself are "punishing" Democrats for their failure to garner more votes.
So moronic.
I came across an image that reminded me of our conversation and figured you might benefit from its wisdom.
The only point of blame is to demand punishment. That's what you're asking for.
And they have already punished themselves, as evidenced by the fact that they don't hold the presidency right now.
Thanks for wasting mine and yours time. Blocked.
It's funny watching BlueMAGA trying to vacillate between
And
BlueMAGA when asked to read more then two sentences
Only an American could describe opposition to genocide as "ignorant or arrogant"
There was no opposition to genocide. That would be the ignorant justification.
The choice was between genocide, and genocide with fascism. Knowing that, and choosing to do nothing so you feel better, is arrogant.
Like hell there wasn't. Don't project your own lack of morality onto everyone else.
Yeah, nothing fascist about exterminating an entire race in order to expand an authoritarian ethnostate...
There are two parties that can with a US presidential election. The choices were bad or worse for Palestinians. Voting for anyone other than bad, is permitting worse to take office.
Welcome to first past the post. It’s a civic duty, not a representation of who you are. Is it fair? Fuck no. That’s how it works for now, and the West Bank will be a billionaire resort thanks to people’s “higher morals.” Way to go. Hope they sleep better at night. The Palestinians sure won’t.
Trump has been no worse than Democrats on Palestine, and the fact that libs think he has, shows that they'll only be honest about the situation when Republicans are in charge.
It's disgusting of you to act like you care about Palestinians.
Are you completely outside of your mind? Trump is shipping massive bulldozers to level the West Bank and turn it into a billionaire resort, with no intention of returning the Palestinians to their land once it’s done.
Ask yourself this, between Harris and Trump, which one is more likely to withhold munitions and military aid from Israel? Remember, this isn’t “ideal land.” Those are your only two choices.
Democrats were already providing Israel everything it needed to level West Bank. You only say otherwise because you're a genocide denier when it's your team doing it.
Harris and Trump were both equally unlikely to withhold military aid and munitions from Israel. The fact you think otherwise it's because you're a genocide denier when it's your team doing it.
Cool. So you’re in agreement that there was no way to stop the genocide.
Then why not vote against the fascist dictator? Oh, because you have superior morals when it comes to the Palestinians, but not the Hispanics and trans people in the US. Got it.
So you're not even pretending to be honest.
And yeah, nothing fascist about exterminating an entire country to expand an authoritarian ethnostate
You are again drawing a false comparison, yet I’m the dishonest one? You’re either willfully ignorant, or delusional.
So you’re fine with people being throw into vans and flown into El Salvadoran gulags? Trans people not being allowed to identify as their gender identity? Married women being able to vote? People being allowed to protest Israel?
All of that is fine with you, because you didn’t have to fill in a bubble on a piece of paper that would have resulted in a similar outcome for Palestinians?
Get over yourself and grow up. This is real life.
Oh sorry, I thought you said we agreed. I guess you are also "willfully ignorant or delusional"
So you're fine with genocide?
Another the thing that wasn't allowed under Democrats either.
Genocide is fine with you
Two posts ago you were claiming that the outcome wasn't similar and that I was delusional, but now that you've realised that lie isn't going to fly, you've effortlessly shifted from the motte to the baily. When we can see you being willfully dishonest like this, why should we listen to you?
Baby.
False. I said the choices were genocide, or genocide and fascism. That’s where our debate began.
Good luck in life telling everyone how superior you are while distorting the world around you to fit your narrative. I’m done with your nonsense.
I know you have no issues with lying, but you should at least not lie about easily verified facts
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
Right here, genius. https://lemmy.world/comment/16593887
Smug quotes are a perfect addition to your moral superiority. I’ll try to remember it when I’m protesting with JVP, while innocent migrants are sent to torture prisons for life without due process and the Palestinians are eradicated, all because you’re above doing anything to stop it.
I thought you said you were done?
Also, you were the one who was above doing anything to stop Palestinians being eradicated.
All of your random pontificating about other people's moral superiority really seems like you fighting a guilty conscious.