politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
It’s not barely enough. It’s the median income.
It's the same picture.
Alabama is a developing country.
It's barely enough in the poorest state, how is that acceptable to you?
Just to show how bad it is, in today's money if it's a family 17 just 2 dollars over poverty wage of 15.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-minimum-wage-is-a-poverty-wage/
Because they're not in rich states, so their lives have no value.
Are you aware there is more wealth inequality in wealthier states than poorer states? There’s no state in the US like Saudi Arabia. Wealthier states have a higher cost of living, making it more difficult to earn a livable wage, not less. That’s precisely why states set their own minimum wage, which is unfortunately below representative of the difference in cost of living.
So how low is low enough for you? How exploited do you want to see everyone?
As I said above, an ideal federal minimum wage is enough to live on in the state with the lowest cost of living. More than that will put more people in lower income states below the poverty line when the price of goods and services increase as a result of the higher payroll costs.
But if it never goes up, oh well. Not like it matters to you.
Willful ignorance gets no respect from me. Take your empty and actionless criticism elsewhere.
Baseless arrogance gets none from me.
Or simply because it's not pure free market so should get removed completely.
They seem really in favor of just removing gov protections
Because I understand economics, and it’s not the right tool for the job.
If you raise the federal minimum wage too high for the poorest states, private businesses will not be able to employ workers. Raising wages directly increases the cost of goods, driving consumers to corporate chains, shuttering local businesses whose employees end up working for minimum wage for the corporations. That’s how you end up with an entire state on welfare and SNAP benefits while working, just to make ends meet.
What you want is a livable wage everywhere, which I am all for. That cannot happen by increasing the federal minimum wage. Smart subsidization and mixed-economics (Democratic Socialism) has proven to be the most effective way to achieve that goal. Look into Nordic mixed-economies for reference.
Honestly you don't or you'd understand it's too low. The entire point of a minimum wage is it's supposed to be the minimum amount a person needs to make to survive as businesses will do everything they can do pay as low as they can. It's the floor and shouldn't be a poverty wage which it continues to be as people like you say we can't possibly do anything to help people.
Notice how that's already the case in most of small town America, to the point large corporations train staff during orientation on how to get it.
This is why go higher and force them to actually pay.
Then again you only want the bare minimum so what's the point of trying to convince you of anything
Your outrage is justified, but your reasoning is flawed. Take an economics course. You’d be very surprised how limited the federal minimum wage is in accomplishing a livable wage across our nation. It’s a safety net for the poverty line. Any more than that will destroy the local economies of poor states. That’s why states set their own minimum wage.
I'd argue you're the one who needs more courses on economics but considering how varied the courses and reasoning in economics can be that's slightly pointless. Then again wonder which you took if arguing we should be racing to bottom with wages. MIT puts it best by saying min wage should be a living wage not just poverty level:
https://livingwage.mit.edu/
Then there's the fact it would be in 20 dollars rage by simply being tied to inflation:
https://cepr.net/publications/correction-this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/
Finally increasing it would actually help marginalized groups
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/raising-the-minimum-wage-would-be-an-investment-in-growing-the-middle-class/
It should be a living wage…in each state. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand the difference between state and federal minimum wages?
Because federal is the floor all the states need to be at or above. Or because states are just arbitrary boundaries in the nation.
Why are you so against anything other than it should barely be above the worst state(s)?
And if for a living wage you wouldn't be saying 17 since that's still too low in your example of Arkansas
https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/05
Yes. Federal minimum wage was designed to be set at a livable wage for the poorest states. States with higher costs of living are supposed to raise their minimum wage above the poverty line for their state.
I’m in NY. A higher federal minimum wage would actually benefit me, because we would see less of a hike in essential goods and services. An increase to $17/hr is only $0.50 more than the current state minimum wage. It’s the poor states and older people that suffer when the minimum wage is too high.
The increased price of goods drives people to corporations over private businesses. The private businesses can’t afford the higher payroll, resulting in layoffs. Those businesses fold, and the previous employees go to the corporations for minimum wage jobs. They inevitability end up on SNAP or other federal assistance while working full time once inflation sets in.
Older people nearing retirement may be forced to work for longer, because their target retirement savings is no longer sufficient. Social Security payments are adjusted for inflation at 2.5%, which is dwarfed by sizable increases in the minimum wage.
Again, as I said above, I’m all for a livable wage across our nation. I’m saying that adjusting the minimum wage is not the only lever that needs to be pulled to make that happen, and brining it up too high too quickly can actually be worse for poor areas than better.
Us hayseeds just wouldn't know what to do with human levels of money.
Don’t project your self-deprecation on others. It’s whiny and pathetic.
How little do you think I should be paid, at minimum?
Is it greater than zero?
That depends on the position and location. I believe it should be enough to satisfy the cost of living in your area, provided you work full-time, if that’s what you’re getting at.
And I live in a red state, so getting there won't happen without an increase in the national minimum wage.
Until then, I would like to know how little per hour you think my life is worth. And if that is a positive number.
Why must you make everything about oppression without even an attempt at understanding my point? Your victim mentality will get you nowhere in life.
Take a minute to read the countless examples I’ve taken the time to write to answer your questions and you’ll see my point is in defense of states with a lower cost of living. I would benefit more from a higher minimum wage than $17/hr, at the cost of lower income states.
I’m in support of an increase to the federal minimum wage. I simply said it should not be above the national median income, but above the poverty line of the states with the lowest cost of living, and should be done in conjunction with other systemic changes to ensure a stabile living wage.
I wish I could live in your world where the corporate jobs paid more to keep people off snap or other assistances.
But again just shows how much our nation is failing us when that is used to prevent helping get people out of poverty.
I’ve survived the last 25 years by living in shit poor neighborhoods and commuting to work in wealthy areas of the city. It’s far from ideal, and I’ve barely saved 1/10 of what I’d need to retire.
I’m in complete agreement that our system is fucked.
Which is why it's so odd how against you are at actually raising it to a proper level...
I’ve typed it out several times. I hope you don’t mind me linking a more complete explanation.
https://lemmy.world/comment/16409180
Yes I know and they continue to miss the point of the mining wage as the floor for the entire country.
And also ignores every source I've brought in...
That’s because you keep writing minimum wage as if there’s one. The federal minimum wage, which is what we’re talking about, is designed to keep the states with the lowest cost of living at a livable wage. States have their own minimum wage that should be adjusted to the cost of living in their respective states.
For example, the federal minimum wage is currently $7.25/hr. NY state minimum wage is $16.50/hr.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/flsa
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage
At this point I can't understand if you're being willfully ignorant of the fact that is the minimum wage in America, under the flsa law, or you need to get your money back for that economics class.
That’s federal minimum wage. This is an example of a state minimum wage.
https://dol.ny.gov/minimum-wage-0
Which doesn't matter as the federal one is the one being discussed and what the states can't go under.
Seriously get that course refunded
Correct. The states set their minimum wage above the poverty line in their respective state, which is why the federal minimum wage is based on the states with the lowest cost of living and not the national mean or median.
I’m done trying to teach you a simple concept. I wish you luck figuring it out on your own.
Please please cite anywhere saying that's how it's set.
That is the literal point of a minimum wage. If your state is not providing you with a minimum wage that is above the poverty line, then you need to challenge your state officials to increase it.
It should be, which is why it's so odd you're so against raising it, but it's not it's just the minimum any state can pay.
Which is why states can be higher than federal.
So again cite where it says it has to be tied or have anything to do with the cost of living in the poorest state.
I never once said I was against raising it. This debate began when I stated that raising it to $17 is sufficient for a federal minimum wage, as it’s the median income in Arkansas.
This entire time you've been arguing only the state min wage should be increased/should only be equal to Arkansas.
And as all the evidence shows 17 isn't enough.
So again please show where min wage can only be equal to col in the poorest state
This was my initial comment on this post. I believe we may have been having two different conversations.
https://lemmy.world/comment/16389270
Thank you for finally admitting you don't know what you've been arguing about this entire time.
Right. You didn’t know what I was talking about this entire time. Learn to read bruh.
You want a permanent underclass of flyover morlocks to exploit.
No, i just had to pass an economics class that had a required paper on protecting the vulnerable members of society through federal social systems and the minimum wage. It became abundantly clear that our system of economy is the reason we have the need for social programs, not the federal minimum wage.
As I said above, I’d prefer that we all had a livable wage. That’s not feasible with our current economic system. We’d need to employ more democratic socialism and use adjustable subsidies to ensure all people were paid enough through a regularly fluctuating economy.
BTW, I am the exploited, so there’s really no benefit for me in this argument. It’s simply an educated perspective.
How convenient for those of you who have already gotten theirs.
As I said above, I am the exploited. Reading comprehension is not your forte, is it?
Let's pretend you are. Then we both are. You're just making excuses for those that exploit you.
You really don’t follow. I’m not defending inequality. I’m stating an economic fact that increasing the federal minimum wage too much will not only fail to provide a livable wage nationwide, but it will also put more people below the poverty line due to the increased cost of domestic goods and services provided at the new higher wages. More people would be on SNAP as well as working full time due to the increased cost of our food supply chain.
It’s honestly not as simple as turning it up to fix everything. Our capitalism needs to be checked with more democratic socialism if we want to move more people into stable income ranges. My personal investment would be to address our medical system first with socialized medicine, but that’s hardly enough on its own. Inequality will only worsen with AI replacement.
Right. You got yours. Fuck us flyover morlocks.