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I'm fine with min wage so long as it is handled by hard research and science and not politicians or lobbyists. Although even scientists can be corrupted but at least it is backed by verifiable facts.
I'm not! Scrap minimum wage! Enact a livable UBI (also established by hard research and science and not politicians or lobbyists) and let the Free Market decide what a job is worth!
Yup, UBI should be at an amount that prevents people from dying or robbing others, but they would still want to work to improve their lives.
That is the pipiest of pipe dreams, at least in the US.
Oh, I have pipier!
Peter piper?
Wait, that’s a different nursery rhyme.
Edit: I’m thinking of the Pied Piper
I think you should be more grateful for minimum wage than you realize, because if capitalism had it way we might end up with a hourly wage of $0,02 or even less maybe. The problem isn't the existence of a minimum wage it's the amount that's connected to it. Don't believe me? Look at the amount prisoners or illegal immigrants make an hour.
You missed the UBI part of his statement I think. You don't need a minimum wage if people can survive without working.
If I could sit on my ass, or work for $0.02, I'm going to sit on my ass.
I didn't overlook it, just not part of the point I'm trying to make. If there would be a basic income and on top of that there is a 2ct hourly wage, everybody will be sitting on their ass. When people are financially 'rewarded' for their work they're more likely to give a damn, even if you'd have thousands of dollars basic income. In other words, having a legally set minimum wage is a good thing also with UBI.
Edit: my statement about underpayed prisoners prove this fact, except their basic income is basically 'spent' on food and housing (it's a bit of a stretch, but better rewards (/higher wages) increase motivation in this case as well). Also let me stress this before it becomes part of the argument, I totally agree on the it needing to be backed by science.
Exactly. Then what would happen to the companies?
Exactly, that's when the free market dictates what a job really is worth
No, having a system where "I'd pay you less if I legally could, but you have to work or die" is something I should be grateful for is incredibly fucked up.
Yes, capitalism wants to pay 2 cents or less for your labour. But it can only do this with the threat of starvation and villified, illegal homelessness.
When you remove that threat, capitalism loses its power over the population.
I'm not saying the system is what you should be more grateful of, but minimum wages were fought for by people who didn't earn enough to pay for their basic needs. They acts as flood gates against greedy employers. Doesn't mean the rest of the system is worth appreciating.
The need for lowering the price of goods doesn't change when there would be a basic income, but you are right people are more willing to accept a low wage of they are threatened by starvation and homelessness, a basic income will definitely be a good thing for people who currently are earning a low wage.
Unlikely, no entity/business/people will ask for $0.02 hourly for their service. In a capitalist society, business/people/entity will ask for correct hourly price/fees/salary/income for their services that is profitable.
illegal workers are breaking the law, so they have no choice, no bargaining power. They can ask for higher hourly price for work done, too, or just don't be illegal or find another job in their home country.
Maybe don't compare to prison/illegals/rapist/pedos since there are many countries with no min wage, like successful Singapore.
I started working from min wage up. I don't work illegally in other countries, and I find another job if pay is too low to make ends meet. The moment I start any job, I also start looking and preparing for my next job. I am never loyal to my employer because they will never be loyal to me.
There might be places where it worked, but the fact there is a difference between 'normal' and 'tipped' minimum wage in the US says a lot about the powers working against the individual. I heard the minimum hasn't changed in decades in the US and the tipped minimum wage is about $2.50 or something. But to be honest I don't expect someone that says "... just don't be illegal or find another job in your home country" to know what it's like to struggle making end meet and then have these powers working against you.
Is that why US companies pay so low (in comparison to their Cost of Living) because there is min wage to follow rather than free market. While other countries (with no min wage) salaries are "higher" in comparison to their Cost of Living, food, clothes and etc.
I think the better educated/skilled someone is the more the free market will benefit the employee, because if someone is easily replaceable the focus is more on how cheap someone can do something rather than how good someone can do it. Companies are under pressure to deliver their service/product for a low price, wages are a big part of their operation cost .
Yes, you are right it is tough being easily replaceable by... robots . It is getting cheaper to just use self-order and self-checkout, self-service pump, vending machines these days.
Maybe the government should provide retraining for citizens to work in more skilled jobs.
Agreed. That's my motto for everything in life.