this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2025
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I take you are a mod, my app doesn't show mods of communities for some reason.
Just a fair and square question. As you quote the fallacy thing.
And please be sincere. As it would be very important for my continuity in this community even in lemmy as a whole.
Why my supposed fallacies are being judged here but not his? He made fallacies also. Are the fallacies on the question or it's the opinion?
Can anything be debated here? As in would you allow opinions that are different than yours on the slightest?
Because at no point I defended any kind of racism, not institutionalized not anything. It would be irrational, as I'm clearly against racism, I consider racism something terrible thus why I get offended when not racist people get accused of being racist.
You clearly agree with the other part. Are you giving me heat because of that? If so please I need a list of what can be said exactly in this community.
Because I would defend in from of a judge with a cristaline conscience, that migration or border policies different from completely open borders are not racism. And that I don't think the European Union have racist policies written in their law with the purpose of putting people down for their race. Quite the contrary I think the European Union have done wonders integrating races, and teaching everyone here not to be racist through incredible programs and policies with foreign countries (including the mentioned refugee programs) and forcing eu members to remove any racial law from their legislation.
If even that sentence cannot be debated here, please let me know. And put it more clear in the rules to which political party do you need to be affiliated to be allowed to post here.
Because calling the EPP or Renew Europe racist just because (and you say nothing about that) feels completely antieuropean. And I don't even vote for those parties, btw (I don't vote), but it hurts me very much when radicalization demonize normal people that may vote or belong to a party for whatever reason.
That's my two cents, from here do what you want to do.
Have a good day.
This will be my last contribution to this community at least from a while. I don't think this particular moderation action was well done or contributive to the benefit of the community or Lemmy as a whole, sorry. If you don't agree with me you could argue with me as a normal user, same as I have done with the other person, with arguments from both sides, each one giving our opinion, which are normal, either of us are defending anything bad, we just disagree on what consists a racist policy, or what European border and immigration policies should be better. I think both me and the other user (and you) agree on all humans being born equal with the same fundamental rights. But confronting a normal opinion with moderative actions from a moderator account is not great.
And just some final though. I think it's disheartening that more and more it feels like you need to have a very specific political affiliation to participate in Lemmy in general. You are free to look at my posts, here in c/europe and in many other communites, I think my political affiliation is very clear from what I write. And see what kind of policial ideas have a person that more and more feels uncomfortable here.
I'm sorry if this comment read angry or heated. But you must understand that in this space you are the authority, and it's not the same being confronted from equal to equal any difference of opinion we could have (that's why we are here to read what other people have to say) than to be confronted by moderation. If from your heart you really think that this moderation was needed because I, and only I, broke the rules and not because your own opinions made you make this action so be it. But from my opinion the authority broke the neutrality needed for good moderation here.
That's a fun use of supposed. When, in your very first reply, you started out with "I'm amazed to find out what's your opinion of any other place on earth." - what exactly is that if not a deflection/whataboutism?
In your third reply, when you subtly removed the parentheses around the word "extremism" and suggested that @shaserlark had said that *"most EU governments are right-wing extremist", even though what they said amounted to "most EU governments are right-wing, some are even right-wing extremists" (fact)? Was that an honest mistake?
So their fallacies are real and don't deserve the label "supposed"?! Interesting.
Fwiw, I can't say that I noticed such a density of bad-faith patterns in @shaserlark's comments. But feel free to point them out.
Yes. However, there are rules. In particular, there are rules 2, 3, and 4. You know, provide facts, don't be a bigot, stuff like that.
So you'd be offended if someone called you racist and ... that is why you can't be racist? I am sure this tactic has a name; I really should read that h*cking Wikipedia page top to bottom at some point. :) In any case, this is nowhere near a valid argument.
Fun bit: There are no human races, we're all the same race. Phenotypes are a terrible indicator of genome composition even; the genome difference between a white person and a black person may be much smaller than the difference between two white people.
When people talk about racism, what they actually mean is phenotype-based group-oriented enmity. The term "racism" is used because there are people who claim there may be human races (i.e. "racists") and not because that is actually true.
So, for one, no one says you need to have "completely open borders". It's just that the practices of Frontex are often very very far removed from treating humans with any dignity. Or in a way that helps European societies improve.
On that, you may want to look up what Frontex does (or just read @Shaserlark's comment, for a summary). You may also want to look up former Frontex head Fabrice Leggeri, including his political background.
At the very least, Frontex is massively betraying humanitarian ideals. I am sure there are fun ways to justify their behavior. Of course, to a large degree it's "lawful" -- but that does not mean it's good, just, fair or not racist.
You can even argue that Frontex treats people badly because they come on shitty boats, whereas Ukrainians who largely came on buses and in cars. I guess that argument would then be "we hate poor people", imo that does not make it any better. But it's not challenging to find marginally cloaked racism from a bunch of EU politicians talking about "Christian values" and "cultural compatibility" and whatnot, to justify that Ukrainians should be treated completely differently from Syrians or Afghans. E.g. here in Germany, Ukrainians somehow immediately received work permits and regular social benefits which are usually denied to other groups of migrants for years or until deportation. Poland actually changed its stance on migrants--as long as they are Ukrainian.
Sure - there are no (few?) blatantly racist laws in the EU. But that doesn't stop bureaucrats, police officers or judges from selectively applying laws, and that is something we see a lot of. And beyond all that is reported on the topic, a lot stays private and untold. If you are not a person affected by racism in your society, it's quite hard to understand.
Feelings? Really? We have lots of indications that many EPP feel closer ideologically to ECR, ID, and PfE than to the anti-racist groups of the parliament. H*ck, the prospective future German chancelor, member of EPP associate party CDU, ran his entire campaign on racism thinly cloaked as "protecting public safety". (Besides calling Muslim-raised boys "little pachas" and complaining about to-be-deported refugees blocking his dental appointments.)
Opinions that are not based in facts are worthless. In fact, worth than useless, they waste people's time.
Just look through your own comment and check how many times you refer to feelings and yourself being offended at the thought of something and whatnot. None of these things is grounded in facts.
I won't be spending more time in this community if moderators behave like this. Thank you for making this decision easy for me.
Enjoy your day.
Sure. Fwiw though, there was no need to make a report.