this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 week ago (33 children)

This might get a lot of down votes but I want to say I don't think it's fair to blame the soldiers in the field for the choices of the decision makers in the office. Those horrible events were unwanted 'byproducts' of the goal of men with evil plans, they were not veterans going off-book. In other words, these veterans did what was asked of them. I'm not saying they didn't do some very bad things, but they aren't the people that should be 'thanked'.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

In the aftermath of World War II, Carl Jaspers formulated in Die Schuldfrage that there are four types of guilt (/responsibility). Criminal guilt, political guilt, moral guilt, and metaphysical guilt. It is a great distinction in general. Yes, political leaders bear a different kind of guilt for the actions than the soldiers, but acting on clearly morally wrong commands do not obliterate guilt from the soldiers. Just like everyone who basically didn't give their life in pursuit of the good and the right bears some metaphysical guilt for what is happening in the world.

Edit: I realized that, since I am neither an English native, nor very articulate in philosophy or politics, I would rather ask perplexity for a summary. So here it is: Karl Jaspers, in his work The Question of German Guilt, distinguishes four categories of guilt and assigns specific instances to each:

  1. Criminal Guilt:

    Definition: Violations of objectively provable laws that are legally considered crimes.

    Instance: The court, which determines the facts and applies the laws in formal proceedings.

  2. Political Guilt:

    Definition: Arises from the actions of statesmen and the shared responsibility of every citizen for the government of their state.

    Instance: The power and will of the victor, especially after a lost war, as in the case of Germany after World War II.

  3. Moral Guilt:

    Definition: Refers to individual actions for which every person is morally responsible, even if carried out under orders.

    Instance: One’s own conscience and dialogue with others.

  4. Metaphysical Guilt:

    Definition: A shared responsibility for all injustice in the world, based on human solidarity. It arises when one does not do everything possible to prevent injustice.

    Instance: God or transcendence.

Jaspers emphasizes that this differentiation is meant to avoid simplistic or generalized accusations of guilt. He rejects the idea of collective criminal or moral guilt for an entire people, arguing that guilt is always individual.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Yes. I wonder what the outcomes of centering the soldiers gult is?

Do we want the solution to be that soldiers have to consider every order given within the historical context of the time to decide the morally correct actions and do them even if it means court martial or death?

Don't get me wrong. I'm okay for soldiers to do this in extreme examples. But I don't think this should be the norm.

I think we should shift the focus to the leaders instead of the soldiers. They are better positioned to make these decisions and have the time to do so.

And it's their job.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Thank you. 18 year old kids who were never given a sufficient education in history, civics, political science, and basic morality can't be blamed for working as a cook, secretary, nurse, electrician, intel analyst, etc in the military so that they can afford college.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Again - there is and must be a distinction between the blame, responsibility and guilt of an 18 year old uneducated soldier, nurse etc and a political leader. But this does not automatically absolve the former from all responsibility and guilt. You should and hopefully do focus on the latter's guilt and responsibility, as it is much larger than the others'. Focussing on the people who follow orders is not what I would advertise for and this isn't the intent, it is actually the exact opposite. By differentiating different aspects and kinds of guilt you have tools and language at hand to talk about it without putting everyone in the same boat.

It is not a black and white issue. Everyone got blood on their hands - you and me included - just in different amounts, in different ways.

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