“Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.”
― Joseph Campbell, Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor
Half plus Half = 100.0%, the entire world is incorrect
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Atheists are reactionary, all they care about is repulsing The Bible, Quran, Upanishads, Torah. That's like repulsing fiction Hamlet because it contains ghost characters, or repulsing Star Wars because it contains "the force" magic themes, or repulsing Lord of the Rings because there are "magic rings". Science Fiction stories like The Bible can be understood, don't be afraid of fiction.
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Believers confuse fiction with non-fiction. Bible verse "John 1;1" from 2,000 years ago spells out this problem along with Bible verse "1 John 4:20". You can not love God or love Jesus, because love of a fiction character or dead person you never met isn't really love. Again, Bible verse "1 John 4:20" spelled this human brain confusion / educational misunderstanding thousands of years ago.
I don't care about repulsing any religions, I just don't believe in them. Atheism =/= antitheism. It's not reactionary not believing in a religion, it's just the default state of being. I've seen religions I could see myself being a part of just based on their philosophy, I just can't force myself to believe in the supernatural elements of it. There's nothing wrong with religion, I just can't truthfully call myself a believer in any that I've heard of.
I'll be up front and say I'm not reading a 10 paragraph essay on religion, so don't bother replying like that unless you don't care if I read it. Just please, don't be ignorant and assume everyone's (or even most people's) atheism is driven by hate or misunderstanding of religion. It's literally just not believing in in a religion, it's not any deeper than that for at least 99% of atheists. You should engage with atheists in good faith instead of making blanket statements about us, you've got weird assumptions about us that need challenging
This reply is reactionary, because it entirely avoids the topic of the entire conversation: "not understanding metaphors" in literacy.
There is zero supernatural. Nothing in the world is supernatural. No book is supernatural. The Bible isn't supernatural. The Quran isn't supernatural. The Upanishads aren't supernatural. the Navajo Pollen Path aren't supernatural. It's a misunderstanding, or worse, people are tricked / gamed into believing things are magic.
I really wonder if these kind of replies are from Mosque or Church people who come along and do everything they can to avoid the topic of metaphors as literary devices. To discuss poetry. And to discuss how people hallucinate based on reading poetry.
Reading James Joyce's book is like LSD drug trips, based on University of Toronto students who had in fact used LSD drugs. People hallucinate, hear voices, and get high off reading poetry, listening to music, etc. A lot of atheists seem to be very very confused and instead of educating readers of "The Bible" how other science fiction books do the same things to consumers of fiction storytelling (poetry / films / etc) - they play into the game of power and control by the Clergy by acting as if only poetry storybooks from thousands of years ago can alter the mental state of the audience. McDonald's hamburger commercials (commercial advertisements) and Disney's media empire and media theme parks are doing practically the same thing as the Bible or Quran stories / Mosque / Church. This battle of "some books are supernatural" is exhausting to describe, Joseph Campbell's lifetime of published work does a far better job than I can. Which is what this Lemmy posting is about, a quote from a professional author and teacher!
YOU ARE PROUD, and UP-FRONT of your anti-literacy. Explains a lot.
I meant to reply a lot sooner, I've just had a busy week and I didn't have a ton of time to give this a proper answer
I totally agree that there's nothing supernatural, that's kinda my whole point. I also totally agree that the power of religion is the same power any rhetoric or story or anything (I think that's what you're saying). I can understand metaphors, I just can't make myself believe those metaphors are literally real, and that's a core part of most religious and spiritual beliefs I've seen. Idk if I've ever met a religious person who didn't literally believe in at least some element of their faith. Most don't take it as 100% literally as evangelical christians, but most christians believe god is a literal guy who creates and/or guides everyone and everything.
Not all religions and beliefs are metaphorical, and not believing in those things had nothing to do with rejecting its metaphors. Again, you're making sweeping, wildly inaccurate judgements about atheists and why we are what we are. It has nothing to do with fearing functions or not getting metaphors. If you're saying every religion is "supposed" to be taken metaphorically and not literally, then 1. you're literally describing being a nonbeliever, and 2. it's just not true, there are a ton of religions you're expected to take literally
You seem unable to read Joseph Campbell's words and address them.
Then we have a education failure. That impacts believers and non-believers.
This is often about ego. People want to be in a group that excludes other people. They want to feel part of a club of people with special knowledge that is not shared and made public. Instead of teaching everyone, they insult others as dumb, stupid, idiots.
Religions do this to other religions, the "wrong religion", and atheists behave this way towards religion believers. It is more about being in a like-minded club instead of viewing it as an education oversight / misunderstanding of the human mind.
Far beyond religion
People are attracted to fiction stories about the sources of autism, that vaccination in childhood is the direct cause of autism spectrum disorder. That's why I've named this community [email protected] - the problem isn't even unique to the Science Fiction storybook The Bible (or Quran, Upanishads, Scientology). It can be any topic where people favor fiction stories.
I think people demonstrate they favor egoism about how they aren't dumb as other people instead of facing up that humanity globally, throughout history, has a problem of confusing fiction with non-fiction, especially if it allows them to be members of a community / group club that seeks to further egoism.
We have known about this fiction / non-fiction problem for 2,000 years. It is even covered in The Bible itself, verse "1 John 4:20" about how one can not "see" a fiction character in a fiction story. Hallucination from consuming a fiction story.
Atheists are avoiding the problem of people hallucinating from any fiction, not just The Bible science fiction poetry. see also: www.LazyWake.com about James Joyce's Finnegans Wake. Again, Bible verse '1 John 4:20" described this problem 2000 years ago as a public problem / society problem. Atheists are avoiding the problem of fiction in marketing and advertising, the students of Edward Bernays for over 100 years, in creating "believers of fiction" that is based on mental exploits of these same problems of religions - without religion. Instead of viewing this as a general problem of the human brain / mind, and all the conflicts it causes (generally handing wealth and power over to the most manipulative who hire students of Edward Bernays), it becomes low-hanging fruit of egoism - being in a club that only cares about the problem of fiction in religions. Ignoring the abuse of population driven into over-consumption and self-destruction by non-religion fiction.
P.S. Please excuse my writing quality, I'm suffering a lot of writing problems today. Lots of brain damage from all the mob mentality / mass dehumanization messages in my home nation, United States of America. I suggest study of James Joyce, Marshall McLuhan, Joseph Campbell, Neil Postman - who have published professionally edited words on these topics. I'm not here to charm anyone with my personal writings. I think certain topics and teachings have been overlooked and not been taken seriously that could address many of the egomania problems in current times.
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"There is something wrong with our world, something fundamentally and basically wrong. I don't think we have to look too far to see that. I'm sure that most of you would agree with me in making that assertion. And when we stop to analyze the cause of our world's ills, many things come to mind. We begin to wonder if it is due to the fact that we don't know enough. But it can't be that. Because in terms of accumulated knowledge we know more today than men have known in any period of human history. We have the facts at our disposal. We know more about mathematics, about science, about social science, and philosophy than we've ever known in any period of the world's history. So it can't be because we don't know enough. And then we wonder if it is due to the fact that our scientific genius lags behind. That is, if we have not made enough progress scientifically. Well then, it can't be that. For our scientific progress over the past years has been amazing. Man through his scientific genius has been able to dwarf distance and place time in chains, so that today it's possible to eat breakfast in New York City and supper in London, England. Back in about 1753 it took a letter three days to go from New York City to Washington, and today you can go from here to China in less time than that. It can't be because man is stagnant in his scientific progress. Man's scientific genius has been amazing. I think we have to look much deeper than that if we are to find the real cause of man's problems and the real cause of the world's ills today." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.