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Top Democrat calls for Hegseth and Waltz to resign and shreds Gabbard over Signal war talk leak
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2025
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So in a nutshell: It's the exact same rhetoric liberals use to whitewash Biden, Harris and the Democratic establishment's support of Israel, and while that not may not necessarily be you 99% of people who say this either fundamentally don't care about the people whose murder they're justifying or are actually braindead. The citation of a small minority faction that cares, the appeal to some vague "pressure" that will cause change if we just have patience, and the implication that just because they don't have official power they can't and don't need to do anything, you might not notice it but if you switched a few words you'd sound exactly like someone arguing that the Uncommitted Movement is literally Satan in August.
For more details, you took one action from three years ago that a minority of Congress democrats did that was not followed up by anything and that had no effect as evidence that liberals are calling for an end to the mass murder of brown people, but that's literally not what's going on. Some Democrats (which aren't all liberals; AOC is a democratic socialist) wrote a letter saying they don't think the president should have the unilateral power to murder brown people all over the world and when he ignored it did nothing. The so-called Congress Progressive Caucus has over 100 members so the fact that only 50 congressmen signed this letter is fucking pathetic. If any of these people actually cared, they'd do something about it. If signing one letter three years ago is supposed to convince me that they care beyond an extremely superficial level, then... uh... no.
Also, you raised Bernie and AOC as examples of a new trend within liberalism, but that's straight up false. AOC is a (I think) democratic socialist, and Bernie ie a straight up socialist. These aren't new flavors of liberal; they're simply not liberals at all. The only thing liberals have done concerning these two is fight them at every turn.
Then you said that neoliberalism is in decline, which is not true. The people who actually run the show in the Democratic party are still all neoliberals. Schumer is still Senate minority leader, Jeffries is still House minority leader, Pelosi is still Pelosi. Maybe we'll see neoliberals losing power in the midterm election if there's even a free and fair midterm election, but now? Nope. And in places where neoliberals are being removed from power, they're not being replaced by nice liberals (those don't exist; the neo in neoliberalism is basically for show); they're being replaced by socialists and other progressives. The existence of those people doesn't make liberalism "nice" because these are also not liberals same as Bernie snd AOC.
And finally, the idea that criticizing the Trump admin's opsec will somehow help stop him is laughable at best, dangerous at worst, because his supporters don't give a shit. The arguments that Hegseth needs to be fired and all that do nothing to actually hurt Trump (who can just nominate whoever the fuck he wants). There's no 5D chess game being played to oust Trump here.
I couldn't be assed to write all this, so I just said liberal apologia and moved on, but there.
Dude I fucking wish. The math changes a lot for authoritarian states, particular ones where political apathy is as common as it is in Egypt. I do intend to he there if there's ever an opportunity to change that, but for now? Nothing to do but wait.
Funny how all of this is your own personal feelings about what the libs are saying. Instead of, you know, acknowledging in any way they are saying exactly what you told me I could never find them saying.
Does "never" have a different definition to you I should be familiar with?
It doesn't matter if YOU feel their words don't matter here. They were still said, and your hate for assuming they never were is no longer justified or warranted.
You hate them when they DON'T say something. I show you them saying it. Now you hate them when they DO say it.
No matter how you feel about their words, they were still said. Which means you can't hate them for NOT saying it like you did in your original comment.
You can only hate them for not saying it again, but this time, when the person they would need to say it to would be Trump. Who not only hates them, but is actively trying to persecute anyone who gives him criticsm.
You say it's apathy they're not talking about stopping drone strikes now, when it's pretty clearly the threat of political persecution.
So really it just boils down to this:
When, exactly, would be the right time to stop hating liberals?
What metric do you have in mind, that once libs reach, you would no longer hate them?
Nothing left to talk about except this. Because I doubt it's something you've ever considered.
I didn't say that, though; you did. I said they're not saying it right now, which they aren't. Also again, the ineffectual actions of a minority don't absolve the majority of responsibility, otherwise all of America right now would be free of blame for twenty five years of bombing brown people in the Middle East and 80 years of helping Israel ethnically cleanse Palestinians. Hint: It's not.
Hate is a strong word. I'm pissed off at their current and past actions, and I've never liked them, but I don't hate them. It's mostly just disdain, disappointment and a hint of just desserts. That aside, if your question is what threshold for me not having negative feelings about liberals is? When they're no longer liberals. I mean no leftist has anything resembling good feelings for liberals; the ideology is fundamentally about protecting capital while giving the masses breadcrumbs so they don't revolt.
If "hate" is too strong word, then how would you describe your original use of "fucking disgusting?"
Is it somehow caring to be disgusted by someone's existence?
And YOU think they aren't saying anything right now because they're disgusting fucking liberals? Right? NOT because Trump would further prosecute them?
I have pointed out several times, they face a literal existential threat by saying anything now. Which means they have an unquestionably legitimate excuse to say nothing, that you are insisting isn't as valid as them just being fucking disgusting.
I've pointed out what over 50 liberals were saying BEFORE the Trump admin was persecuting them. And you're belief is those words aren't to be listened to because liberals are too fucking disgusting to be honest.
Okay, so when is that?
Because unless you're willing to define what behavior MAKES them liberal, you are judging people instead of their behaviour. Which is racism /bigotry by its very definition.
Which is, comparatively, pretty easy to see you practicing in this conversation if we look at it through a different context:
If these were Jewish people, when would they be sufficiently not Jewish enough for you to not find them disgusting?
Because it's not when they don't talk like Jews. Its not like when they don't act like Jews. And its not when the Jews have no power to hurt you, and are being persecuted by another group.
They're all still Jews, I mean "Libs" to you. And that fucking disgusts you as you have made clear for days.
So would you agree that when a Lib talks, they will always sound too fucking "disgusting" to you too?
Or is there something they could say worth listening to? What would that be to you if it exists at all?
I find their attitude about many things disgusting, but I don't care about them enough to hate them. I have better things to hate in my life, like Zionists. And speaking of Zionists:
I'll ask: When would Zionists stop being disgusting? See what I mean? Okay back from the top:
They're saying things though; if they were silent I'd give them a pass (to an extent; all Americans who go that route share a moral responsibility for not acting). They're vocally criticizing the regime, and have torn into Trump over the opsec stuff by your own admission. Yet there's not a word about the mass murder.
You tried to argue that, and I laid out a counterargument that you then proceeded to dismiss and claim I just hate liberals too much. Look if you want to have a real conversation here you'll have to engage with my arguments just as I engage with yours.
When they stop caring about the interests of capital and start caring about human life. More specifically wealth redistribution, strong regulation on capital, healthcare for all, strong climate legislation, not murdering people abroad directly or through Israel, etc are bare minimum criteria that liberals of all shapes and stripes fail miserably, because if they adopt these things they'll stop being liberals and become some variant of democratic socialist. Liberals are fundamentally people who ostensibly care about both democracy and capitalism, but resolve tensions inherent between the two by falling on the side of capitalism. This is why AOC and Bernie for example are not liberals.
Liberals are worth listening to when they stan for democracy (so civil and political rights, what little social welfare and climate legislation they do support, etc), and not worth listening to when they stan for capitalism against democracy (so tax cuts and handouts for billionaires, unnecessary privatization, etc).