cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/36672698
Source: https://xkcd.com/1683/
this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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Even with jpeg, you only lose data each time it's encoded. If you save the file instead of taking a screenshot, the quality remains the same.
That said, I don't know if there's a digital storage method widely used that will last longer than a book without some sort of active aspect to the storage (like copying the files to a new medium every now and then).
I think punch cards are one that can, but they aren't used much anymore due to poor density and speed, plus being susceptible to literal bugs. It's possible to encode digital information into carved rock, but that would also have density issues (higher density means less reliability because the amount of damage required to make it unreadable is lower).
I think there's a good chance that a lot of the knowledge we have today could be lost entirely if civilization collapses to a certain degree just due to how we store it.
We do have some backups.
https://archiveprogram.github.com/arctic-vault/
You’re right, the format’s integrity is only as good as the medium upon which it’s stored. Hard disks are really only good for a few decades if left untouched. Punchcards maybe a few thousand years if sealed up well.
The “active aspect” you mentioned is the key. There are file storage systems which employ regenerative error correction to achieve exactly this sort of desired outcome. I use one on my home server called ZFS. It was originally developed by Sun Microsystems and works great. The only catch is that there is a limit to the number of drives in your storage array which can fail before data becomes unrecoverable. So, you have to be constantly vigilant, and if a drive is starting to go, replace it before a potential worst case scenario of cascade failure.
Unfortunately, I don’t know of a way we could store something indefinitely without this kind of active monitoring and occasional TLC. If a sort of caretaker is required, this might be a good job for AI with real world robotic hooks - have it monitor the array and fabricate replacement drives for installation as needed.
One other possibility that just occurred to me is to encode it into living DNA along with better error correction mechanisms so it doesn't mutate. Like thinking from a "leave data for future civilizations to find" perspective, though it could also be a decent long term passive(ish) archival. Maybe completely passive if a self-sustaining but isolated environment could be created for it.
Not great for data you want to keep but also actively use, though. Or data you want to be able to modify.
Isn't DNA, like, famous for its mutations?
There's M-discs which are supposed to last for 1000 years, but obviously nobody has fully tested that yet. They're readable by normal DVD and Blu-ray players and go up to 100GB capacity.
There's LTO tapes as well of course, but they're not rated to last for as long (only 30ish years).
Oh thank you for telling me about these, I wasn't aware that there was a DVD/bluray format designed for archival purposes. The media is more expensive than I remember blank discs being back when I still used them, but it's not horrible either, like $100 CAD for a 25 pack.
It's probably too late by now for my old backup/data CDs and DVDs, but this is the first time I've felt like I could be confident in something to store data that I want to archive without worrying about doing the active archival stuff with (and where the files won't be stored on someone else's computer, putting both my privacy and data security in their hands).
It's also given me a good reason to get a drive capable of reading those old data discs to see if I can even access that data still, though I'm not holding my breath. The writers aren't even that expensive.
Edit: Correction: m-disc BDXL 100GB discs are pretty expensive, now that I'm looking deeper. 100 CAD will get a 25 pack of 25GB discs, 50GB discs are a little more than twice that and 100GB are a bit more than twice the 50GB.
We have stone tablets from back when humans invebted written language. I vote we back up critical data using this method.
You mean we should consider recording information on silicon?
Yeah, though it has that issue with data density. The denser the data, the more likely it will become degraded from erosion or chipping.
Also if there's a discontinuity between our civilization and a future one, the denser the data, the less likely any future civilization would discover it's there, even if it still has enough integrity to be read.