this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Haile_Kifer_and_Nicholas_Brady
TLDR: man lures teens into his home by leaving his house wide open so he could shoot and kill them.
The absolute sicko made audio recordings where he floated about killing them.
This case is horrible, but you have misrepresented it in your comments. The teens broke a window and entered his house with the intention to rob it—it was not left wide open. The recording devices were turned on because he knew they were robbing the house. His first shots to stop the intruders were legal.
Where the crime occurred is that the original shots did not kill them, and then he executed them after they were downed. He also did not report the bodies for a day.
Don’t get me wrong, dude is a psychopathic asshole, but misrepresenting the series of events doesn’t help anybody.
With the premise the OP presented, I expected something worse than what was actually there. It was still horrible, but the impact was lessened for the reasons you listed.
Interesting how someone can manufacture consent like that by shifting your initial view.
They weren't, they went over this in the trial.
He became the aggressor when he removed barriers to entry and laid in wait which is a negative defense for self defense.
Wikipedia says they broke a window to enter, and that can be heard on audio—I’m not trying to argue with everything, but how is a closed window that had to be broken for entry not a barrier?
They did, read the testimony. He has the window blocked and he removed it so the window would be the easiest way to enter.
He set a trap, there's no legitimate purpose for that.
The dude clearly murdered them and had violent vigilante fantasies—I don’t argue that one bit.
That said, they still came up to his house, broke a window, and entered with the intention to burgle it. It doesn’t really matter if the window was previously blocked or made of paper—breaking and entering with the intention of burglary is a crime, and having no block on a window isn’t enticement to have your house burgled.
Again, before anyone thinks I’m defending him, I fully agree that he is a murderer. I just think the burglars weren’t innocent either. In Reddit lingo, “everyone sucks here”.
I’m not saying one is worse than the other, rather that both fucked around and found out.
Well that's strange because one is a convicted murderer.
I find this kind of “appeal to the system when it agrees with me” strange
What do you mean, by any system one is a murderer one is a burglar what's not to agree with?
And the others probably would have been convicted of burglary if they lived, what’s your point?
Absolutely. If you think unarmed burglary and premeditated murder are the same morally and legally I cannot agree.
Never said that. You are taking everything I say and twisting it.
The man is a murderer, the intruders are burglars, everyone sucks here. That is the only point I have ever made in this thread.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/15490737
Except it isn't, you keep saying he had the right for the first few shots the jury found he did not.
Agreed. Never said he wasn’t.
You are correct, I misspoke there. I was intending to say that I wasn’t saying the burglars were worse than the murderer—it just came out wrong.
You are defending him boss.
The jury took less than three hours to establish as a matter of fact that none of the shootings were justified or in defense. It's a fact now, your opinion is just that... An opinion and one not backed by either statute or the court case.
I already requested the link for the info you are referencing, and I have told you where I found mine. Please provide a source, I would like to learn.
I did!
The court transcripts which I've read, you haven't and I'm not your goddamn mom. You know the source, go get it for yourself.
Ed: also https://lemmy.world/comment/14056314
Maybe read more, I already said I'd look for my copy. I'm not magic and I'm not your mom, it will take some time and I also no no legitimate reason to do your legwork. I directed to where and how to gain the transcript to which you said you simply don't have the time. So what's your actual complaint, that I'm not doing it fast enough for the lord-god whatever the fuck your name is?
It's been a long time since I've heard about this case, but my recollection was that he left his garage door open and parked away from his house so it would appear open and unoccupied. I didn't see anything on the Wikipedia page that refutes that.
There may have been a window from the garage to the house or something, but it clearly says they broke a window, entered his home, and proceeded to the basement where they were shot. He had previously been burgled in the garage too, which Wikipedia says he was unaware about until police found evidence of a prior burglary. The house had been burgled previously as well, which is why he was looking out for people casing his house.
I hope none of this comes off as a defense of that asshole, but facts matter, and those teens did commit a crime. I don’t think they deserved to be executed for it, but he was within his rights to defend himself when they broke in to his home. He was not within his rights to execute them after the threat was over.
No he wasn't, read the actual case transcript.
There was never a threat, you really really need to read the court transcripts.
Link?
I probably have my copy at home but I'd have to dig.
If you do the case number and FOIA it from the court it was in you'll get a copy, that's how I got mine.
With all due respect…
Sure, no one has time to find out the facts of what the fuck they're voicing their ignorant opinion about.
Everyone has time for that, you don't have the will it would seem.
It depends on the State for specific legality.
Armed or not, an actual threat or not, an intruder into an occupied home leaves benefit of the doubt at the entry point they used to get in. It might have been intended as a burglary instead of a home invasion, but the perpetrator does not get to make that distinction.
There is a tangible difference between regular property crime like shoplifting, fraud, or theft outside of a dwelling and the violation of a home. And another tangible difference if that home is occupied.
Sure, this is adjudicated though there's absolutely zero question to it at this point.
No one said they did.
Correct, the jury instructions are public and literally all of that is in it.
I'm not even quite sure what your point is.
The US is over-policed, while simultaneously being under-policed for certain demographics, by a street gang operating under the color of law. We have an overabundance of bad shoots by the cops executing people for nonviolent propert crimes that needs to be dealt with. This is a real issue.
There is also a tendency for some to conflate that with self defense of/in a home under the (generally correct) idea that no property crime deserves the death penalty, like McDonalds managed to conflate the coffee burned old lady with frivolous lawsuits. I am saying that once you break into a home it is no longer "property crime" but something else.
This is the absolute truth. I personally know a guy who pulls out a huge roll of money just to buy a $1 pop from a machine at night. He carries, has been for years. He is trying to get someone to mug him. You know why.
The kids weren't blameless. But they didn't deserve to die.
I remember this showing up on Reddit and people sick ass redditors justifying his actions. So sick.