this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2026
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sure that’s why i vote third party, or candidates i know push my interests. I will not vote for establishment democrat.
That's fine, so long as they won enough support to be the primary challenger against the GOP candidate. Otherwise you're wasting your vote and helping the Republican win. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and vote for a bad candidate so that the even worse one doesn't win.
Edit: A lot of people don't like this comment but none of you are telling me what the alternative is besides not voting (which isn't happening because I vote in every election and you should too).
The problem with this argument is that while it might be objectively correct in the short term it's also objectively self-destructive in the long term. Both for the voter and the candidate.
Because elections are won by turnout. If you don't turn out your base you don't win elections. But your strategy eventually murders your own base. They get dejected, they get disillusioned, they get impatient, whatever you want to call it. And you can't fucking change that. No amount of argument will ever change that. If you keep serving your voters a turd sandwich it doesn't matter how many giant douches are on the other side. Eventually they stop coming to eat.
And that's how you lose really big. Which screws over everybody.
You would be correct in an utopian world. There people would vote for who they want instead of who they don't mind.
But this is reality, and because of the semi-2-party system of the US, voting for any third party is just the same as not voting at all.
If you want to change the system, hold rallies between the elections. But don't use the elections for that. Or you can be sure you will get an other trump.
And how can your long-term plan work if everything gets fucked up so much short-term, that you will never get to the long term plan in the first place?
You're the one who's living in the utopian world. I just told you, you can't fucking change it. Someone who relies on being the lesser of two evils will always eventually lose massively. That is inescapable. You will subdue your own base every single time. You cannot win without your own base. Trump won because of this. Maybe you'll beat them this time but six or eight years later he's going to win again, or whoever the new Trump is. And that's going to be how it works forever. And every single time it'll get worse and worse and worse. Your strategy is willfully choosing to lose.
But what's the alternative? Not voting? I won't even consider not voting!
The alternative is not running conservative candidates who never do anything for their base. That's the alternative. You all act like it's a monolith. That the liberal Democrats have to by some law of nature run these conservative Democrats who never do anything for the people. There's no law about that. There's no reason that has to be true. But if they choose to keep doing it they are choosing to lose. Because they're the only side that are trying to do something that is destined to fail no matter what.
I am not in control of that. The best I can do I sign petitions and vote for the third party when they show up on the ballot in the primaries, and if my candidate doesn't win then I vote for whoever stands the best chance* against the republican candidate.
Well you can also not advocate for the critically failed and doomed system. You could give that a try. Because while you may not control who they run you sure do support them publicly and audibly telling them no matter who you pick I'll vote for you no matter how much you screw me I'll vote for you I'll vote for you no matter what. And maybe that's a bad message to send them.
Are voters clustered in the center of the political spectrum like a bell curve or are voters clustered in two camps at the extremes? If it's the latter, I could see the "don't vote" strategy working. Otherwise, it's bound to backfire because the leftmost candidate would need to move so far left to gain your vote that they would cede more voters to the candidate to their immediate right than they gained by moving left and lose the election as a result. They therefore don't consider you in their choice of policies and move farther right as a result, which seems counterintuitive, but it's true. This of course assumes a single political axis which isn't necessarily accurate.
This is literally the opposite of what has been happening. The Dems keep moving right, and giving up voters on the Left. Every election they scream about the Leftists voter base that is both:
And their strategy isn't because they can't get Leftist voters, it's because they'd rather let the Republicans win, then enact Leftist policy.
This argument is exactly what enables the establishment democrats to maintain their power. It’s a threat they hold over the American people, and the only winning move is to not give in and vote for them. The fascists didn’t come to power because of the last election, they came to power because of the 5 decades of concessions the American people gave to the oligarchs.
Well then what's the alternative? You can't just not vote.
Vote third party and, more importantly, organize your community. Get involved, don't just wait for elections to roll around.
I already explained why voting third party in anything other than a primary is a waste of a vote if they're not the primary challenger against the GOP candidate. I need a better answer or I'm going to continue voting for the lesser evil.
The better answer is to organize your community so that ultimately we can overcome bourgeois politics and break free of the prisoner's dilemma they have created. Vote for whoever you want in the meantime, it's not going to fundamentally change the game or liberate us.
No, you explained why you keep throwing your vote away by giving it to a party that openly disregards what you want.
you can argue some perverse version of the prisoners dilemma all you want, but when i said that i will not vote establishment democrat, i mean i. will. not. vote. establishment. democrat.
Great, so you are okay with an other GOP then?
Cause that is what you will definitely get with that mentality.
And you can bet they will call your climate goals woke, and do even less than a democrat would.
no, but like i said. there is nothing on this earth that will change my position. it’s up to the democrats to decide how painful they want the rest of the world to suffer before they are forced into the light kicking and screaming.
you do not get forward momentum by voting the lesser of two evils.
what position do the establishment democrat actually hold that would make the lesser of two evils at all a viable choice? because it sure as shit ain’t climate change, immigration, lgbtq+ protection, reigning in corporations, resisting genocide, universal healthcare, loosening racially motivated drug enforcement, breaking up the prison industrial complex, breaking up the military industrial complex, defunding the police, establishing ranked choice voting, repealing citizens united, making bribery illegal again, nor establishing term limits. so i ask you, what the fuck is left?
“the democrats will hold trump accountable!” big fucking whoop. he will probably die before the end of his fucking term, and if not the only reason the democrats will drag him through a congressional panel (but never prison!) until the day he dies, is so they can do the exact same thing trump does to avoid answering for the epstien files, distract from doing their fucking jobs, and taking corporate bribe money.
i am so fucking tired of this vote blue no matter who bullshit.
Okay then what do you do? Not voting is a waste, and so is voting for the third party that lost the primary. So please, tell me: How should one vote, then? I got a lot of replies but nobody can seem to tell me what the alternative is beyond wasting your vote.
the point being that you can not “waste” your vote. the mindset of your vote being “wasted” is the propaganda from the vote blue no matter who crowd. if everyone voted for the candidate they actually wanted and didn’t worry about being “right”, or on the “winning” side, the world would be a better place. that’s the whole reason i mentioned the prisoners dilemma.
hell, not voting can be a choice and not a surrender to apathy. it’s not your job to sacrifice your morals in order to side with one ass hole over another to take advantage of the office. it’s the dnc’s job to be electable and not field shit stain fucks.