Boycott US
Overview:
The community dedicated to boycotting the US until they stop fascism, restore full democracy and start following international law.
Americans have a moral obligation to resist Donald Trump and project 2025 at every turn.
America is a flawed democracy currently being ruled by oligarchs. Stop the backslide! Dont let America become the next Hungary.
America needs to challenge the court rulings of citizens united v. fec and shelby county v. holder, protect the media, implement independent district drawing, and the single transferable vote so they don't end up having people stay home in life-changing elections because they cannot vote for their favourite candidate.
Join 50501.chat to fight back!
Related communities:
Boycott:
!buycanadian@lemmy.ca
Activism:
!antitrumpalliance@lemmy.world
view the rest of the comments
I've edited the last sentence in my original comment to better highlight that there's a lot more out there.
I've found that frontloading a newcomer with lots of information, whether it's OSM, the fediverse, or a similar technical topic that we are passionate about, ends up scaring away a lot of people. They'll click on the link, scroll around, then move on to the next thing.
The reason why I suggest Comaps is because it felt the most similar to mobile Google Maps, which is what the majority of people are using.
Then once they actually try it and use the app once, they're more likely to stick around and learn more about OSM. + They'll know what they want when they ask for recommendations.
I figured that, but I think advertising CoMaps as effectively the "de facto" OSM experience by railroading someone into that could do more harm than good. When I started using OpenStreetMap, my understanding was that it's a map that I could choose how to use. So when I didn't like Organic Maps (at the time), I could just try another app (and eventually landed on OsmAnd on mobile and the Carto web UI on desktop).
If I'd just started with CoMaps with the understanding that it's "the" OSM experience, I would've thought "Oh, so it's low-rent Google Maps". The lack of features is what would make some people prefer it over Google Maps, but I don't think that's everyone or even most people. A deal breaker for a lot of people, for example, would be lack of aerial imagery, which OsmAnd allows you to use via a third-party. (I like the Carto UI enough now that I don't use aerial imagery, but back in the day, I literally never would've used a maps app without imagery tiles.)
I think something like "I use CoMaps and really like it because of its simplicity, but there are a lot of other applications if that's not what you're looking for" might be good. Whenever I'm telling someone about OSM, I tell them I use OsmAnd because I like how feature-rich it is (and link to a good tutorial), but I also mention CoMaps because it's a more streamlined experience and note that there are other good applications depending on what they're looking for.
Notably, a mirror of this happened to me when I learned as a confused Windows user that Linux was just Ubuntu. Tried Ubuntu, hated it, and gave up on Linux for probably 5 years because it felt like I was using a low-rent macOS. Came back and fell in love with KDE Plasma.
TL;DR: I understand decision paralysis, but I don't think showing someone a couple of options is problematic.
Edit: That said, I do think CoMaps should come up in any discussion with new users, so I agree with you on that.
Just checked out OsmAnd and managed to blow through the "free" downloads just downloading the maps local to me before even learning that it limits how much we can download of the free community data before charging... It's a bit off-putting that they're charging for open source data, unless I'm missing something...
On the Play Store version, you're able to download seven offline maps, where a map is either (your choice) a country or a state/province/etc. (some smaller countries don't have the state/province/etc. level and just give you the whole country). I haven't pushed it, but I think you should be able to have seven countries(?) available for offline view (maybe the world map counts as one, so six?).
OsmAnd is a BV (besloten vennootschap, effectively an LLC), so similar to something like ProtonMail, there's a "Start" (free) tier, a "Maps+" one, and a "Pro" one, where both paid tiers unlock unlimited offline map downloads. (You're able to use online maps as much as you want.)
The maps are stored on and downloaded from OsmAnd's site in a
.obffile, which is OsmAnd's own format. So they're essentially charging for open-source data that they've converted and are hosting as a way of incentivizing users out of the free tier, which as far as businesses go, I see no real problem with. They're making that open-source data more accessible with a powerful app and making features that encourage people to contribute back to it, not parasitizing it.OsmAnd, to my understanding, is well-liked among OSM's contributors for having a great app and a healthy business model.
Anyway, with that out of the way, the "Maps+" and "Pro" features are free on F-Droid. It is, after all, free and open-source.
Yea fair enough, I've edited my original comment to be better
Chill out
From calmly expressing my thoughts? I'm trying to share an alternate perspective as someone who would've quit OSM and not looked back for years (if ever) if I'd been introduced to it in the way they're suggesting.
I have nothing but respect for what @otter@lemmy.ca is trying to do and am trying discuss a shortcoming I see in their approach, because I have the same goals as they do in wanting new people to discover an amazing project.
If you're misconstruing a lengthy disagreement as a heated one, that's on you.
Yea I appreciate the perspective :)
Me too, for what it's worth. The curse of knowledge is a real thing and means I inherently have problems putting myself in the shoes of a new user. It's good to hear a perspective that counteracts that bias.
FWIW, it was nice reading your discussion. As an Osmand user myself, I usually recommend simpler apps in general discussions, while still highlighting that there's a diversity of apps.