this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2026
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A woman drives with both hands on the wheel. Her phone sits face-down on her lap. No officer pulls her over. No lights flash. Weeks later, a $1,251 ticket arrives in the mail. The evidence: a single frame from a Camera surveillance app. The charge: phone use while driving.

Automated camera companies market their devices as automated license plate readers — tools for catching stolen cars, flagging warrants, and aiding serious investigations.

Sold as a Crime Tool. Used as a Fine Machine.

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[–] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (6 children)

Why is it illegal to have a phone in your lap? That doesn't make sense. That's bizarre.

Edit:

Really? This is a hot take? WTF!

[–] isleepinahammock@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Why is it illegal to have a phone in your lap?

Likely to make the law in any way practical to enforce. Many people will use their phone in the car by keeping it between their legs like a middle schooler hiding their phone use from their teacher. They can read messages or watch videos while keeping it out of their hands, but it's still just as distracting.

You could just ban looking at a phone in your lap while driving, but then you have the nightmare of proving that someone who glanced down was actually looking at their phone, rather than just randomly glancing down for some other innocent reason. And they would have to glance down at their phone at the exact moment a camera or police officer saw them.

Phone use is actually very hard to enforce because of the nature of its use. People using their phone while driving don't tend to continuously look at the phone the whole time they drive - they would be completely incapable of driving if they did so. Instead, they use it intermittently, such as while stopped at a traffic light or while cruising down the highway. That use is still enough to degrade their driving performance to the level of a drunk driver, but it's not continuous. To make enforcement practical, you need to write the law so that it doesn't require a lucky coincidence to enforce.

For an older comparable example, consider open container laws. You might reasonably ask, "wait, as long as I'm not drinking from it, why can't I have an open beer in the car? Maybe I just want to take my half-finished beer home from the bar and finish it at home!" And while that would be a perfectly innocuous reason to have an open container of alcohol in the car, it would also make drunk driving laws much more difficult to enforce. You could only ticket someone for drinking in the car if they happen to take a sip right when you're watching. Instead of trying to outlaw the infrequent action, you instead outlaw the necessary but continuous action. It's not practical to only ban drinking in vehicles. Instead you ban having an open container, as "possessing an open container" is something a drunk driver will be doing for a protracted period of time.

It's not a perfect approach to writing laws; you do end up criminalizing some innocuous behavior. But trade offs have to be made. Yes, it's unfortunate that open container laws also make it so you can't bring your half-finished drink home from the bar. And yes, it's unfortunate that banning cell phone use while driving also requires banning just having a phone in your lap.

But if you've ever worked in a classroom, you'll know that this is the only way to actually ban cell phone use while driving. Teachers learn very quickly they can't just ban students from using their phones, they have to completely ban them from having them out at all. Relying on lucky coincidences to enforce laws is not a practical solution.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If you write enough laws in a manner that makes it easy to violate them accidentally, then anyone can be prosecuted at any time and civil liberties can be removed via technicalities.

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 6 days ago (4 children)

The only reason to have a phone in your lap while driving is if you intend to use said phone while driving.

[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 days ago

Your phone fell off the dashboard phone stand, you caught it and set it in your lap.

[–] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

That logic can be applied to anywhere in the car that the driver can reach. Is the Australian government suffering a collective stroke? Should we send help?

[–] Frigidlollipop@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

I honestly throw mine wherever without thinking about it. Def has been on lap or in crotch a few times.

[–] HerbGrower@slrpnk.net 4 points 6 days ago

Or you are currently using it and trying to be sneaky about it

[–] Jason2357@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

A law that specified you were actively using the phone would be hard to enforce. Simmiliar to how it is usually illegal to have open alcohol within reach of the driver. The officer doesn't have to actually see you drinking it.

[–] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago

How would it be hard to enforce? You can see it next their head.

[–] Auli@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes it does. Your phone is in your lap so you can look at it. Keep it away. I know everyone is addicted to them but just drive without looking st it.

[–] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I don't own a car. I ride a bicycle and take Ubers and Lyfts for long distance travel, and smart phones are like the spice mélange to those drivers. They seem to need them to navigate the Universe. So this law just seems terribly ill-conceived. The lap is just an oddly specific place to focus on. So you can set them on the dashboard, center console, or anywhere else, but the lap is the danger zone?

My main phone is a dumb phone. I hate smart phones and only got one specifically for Ubder and Lyfts, so I'm not addicted. So I'm standing outside looking in and it's a bizarre law. Sure, we don't want people playing Angry Birds while driving, but I don't think this is a well thought out solution that does anything at all except cause more chaos and suffering.

[–] WindyRebel@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

If you slam on the brakes or maybe brake too sudden and it flies off and onto the floor, then it could potentially slide under a pedal (like the brakes), hindering its function.

Is it likely? Probably not, but it is a dangerous hazard waiting to happen.

[–] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

I've been trying to wrap my mind around the logic of this law and this was one of the things I considered they must be worried about. It's not so much people using them, it's just they don't want them in the lap. Because Uber and Lyft drivers have to use them for work in the US. Here they have they often have a mount on the dash board to hold their phone and they're constantly taking calls and checking maps.

As you say though it's like a one in a million event freak accident if it flies off the lap and gets stuck under the pedal. It would be weird to pass a law for some off the wall scenario like that.