@The_Decryptor@aussie.zone @Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.com

By "I don't know why solar panels have to be this reflective", I meant PV panels as well. Yes, the article I linked, regarding Ivanpah, refers to a solar thermal, which is worse give the way its designed as a panopticon conjuring a death ray out of sunlight. But solar panels aren't less unsafe for beings high in the skies:

They’re also mostly falling out of favour, losing out to photovoltaic panels. Which are simpler to make, operate, and are vastly cheaper to boot, while also not being reflective (They are protected by a layer of glass, so there’s a minimum amount of reflection simply because they’re smooth, but they’re not mirrors).

I tend to disagree. The glass coating is still a flat smooth glass, practically similar to that of a mirror. Should the glass coating be rough, it would reduce the specular reflection, but this would likely affect the absorption of sunlight by the PV semiconductors.

On top of that, we're talking about a pair of eyes seeing the reflection from height, which won't be the same as if you stare at it standing in ground level. In fact, pilots can get temporarily blinded by solar panels and this can pose dangers to aviation (as per IATA).

If trained humans are affected, you betcha birds are even more affected by having eyes more sensitive than ours. Hence my comment on this regard, because we humans have this annoying bias of worrying more about other humans (because, after all, we're humans) than worrying about the countless other species who have been inhabiting Earth way before an hominin descended from the tree to play with fire and having a "cogito ergo sum" delusional moment. I'm not saying we shouldn't worry about other humans, I'm saying we are far from being the only tenant species temporarily inhabiting this Pale Blue Dot.

@naught101@lemmy.world @Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.com

That 6000 figure is from a solar thermal plant, not solar PV.

Yes, but PV has a highly reflective coating, which reflects sunlight almost like a mirror. It won't burn the birds, but then we get to another part of your reply:

Solar panel reflections are nothing like lasers.

Which is correct to a certain extent... but looking at a mirror which is reflecting the sunlight doesn't seem that nice to the eyes, especially sensitive eyes of a bird looking at it from height (where the sunlight reflection may or may not converge from multiple panels positioned together, hence my analogy to lasers) and possibly mistaking it for a lake (glass panels aren't something naturally occurring, it's something we hominids built, something unbeknownst to other species, so the chances are the reflective surface will seem like the surface of a water body, especially in deserts where the bird will be thirsty). This "Siren call from the light" is similar to how moths end up colliding with lamps: they don't know the concept of "light emitter" so their instincts mistake it for the Full Moon which means mating.

Notice: birds being killed by solar panels doesn't necessarily mean the panels are directly killing them; rather, it's the specular reflection from their glass coating rendering the birds disoriented (because, again, the thing looks like a lake but isn't a lake), which in turn will expose them to unnecessary risks, such as being temporarily blinded (akin to how drivers can get blinded from getting headlights unwittingly blasting at their eyes) and/or colliding mid-flight due to misguided spatial notion and unseen obstacles. Because it's an avian death indirectly (and not directly) caused by the panels, it's unlikely to become statistics, it'll likely look like the bird died of "natural causes". In fact, many human activities indirectly kill birds, especially when we talk about climate change, and I guess/hope you know how this lack of direct harm doesn't mean climate change isn't doing harms to wildlife.

And owls would not be affected because they fly at night…

Seems like you don't know some of the amazing diurnal and crepuscular owls yet, so here it goes:

- Surnia ulula (Northern Hawk Owl, primarily diurnal):
https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/nohowl/cur/introduction
- Asio flammeus (Short-eared Owl, active day and night):
https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/sheowl/cur/introduction
- Athene cunicularia (Burrowing Owl, one of my favorites, active day and night): https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/burowl/cur/introduction
- Bubo virginianus (Great Horned Owl, can be active during twilight): https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/grhowl/cur/behavior

There are others, and as I said in another reply in this thread, there's the possibility that a nocturnal owl will be disturbed by something (corvids harassing her, or human activity) which will force her to wake up and flee to a safer place.

@Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com @Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.com

What exactly are you referring to? My comment is lengthy and mentions a lot of things.

@OwOarchist@pawb.social @Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.com

lol, why specify both here? Tell me more about these non-bird avians and/or these non-avian birds…

At least to me, an ESL (English as a second language) person, both words carry different meanings:

Birds = Passeriformes, such as corvids, mockingbirds, parakeets, etc...
Avians = everyone else from Aves clade, especially the "larger" ones, such as owls, falcons, eagles and swans, but also hawks and chickens.

In Portuguese (I'm Brazilian) we have "pássaros" and "aves", which are definitely going to refer to different winged beings, and owls aren't passerines, therefore they'd be more of an "ave" than a "pássaro".

Both of these categories, however, have species that are equally going to be affected by solar panels, hence my distinction and inclusiveness.

Aren’t they only active at night, though?

That's the beauty of Strigiformes: there are lots of misconceptions about owls in what our common sense believes. There are diurnal and crepuscular owls, such as the northern hawk-owl (Surnia ulula) and the burrowing owl (Athene cunicularia, although she isn't used to fly as higher as her cousins because, and here's another common sense belief to be broken, she doesn't nest on trees and other higher places, she nests underground).

Many owls are crepuscular, active during dawn/dusk when the sun has a lower apparent angle. Depending on the solar panels' position and arrangement (e.g. solar panels facing slightly north/south), this means a sunlight reflected towards the far horizon instead of reflecting upwards. Given how the sunlight during dawn/dusk is fainter, yeah, it's not gonna burn the avians/birds, however it'll definitely blind them if they're flying towards the solar panels, because they'll be looking directly at a focused and magnified sunglare.

And even the so-defined "nocturnal owls" may meet the sunlight, either by being faced by danger/annoyance during sleep/roosting (such as corvids harassing owls or evil hominids attacking owls, among other situations requiring the owl to wake up and flee) or (a guess of mine) by getting active earlier during summer (when sunset happens later than usual), then they'll face the same problem as their crepuscular/diurnal cousins.

Watch this video before you doubt it without looking into it. The sources he uses are listed in the description.

https://youtu.be/gzdLdNRaPKc

What alternative do you propose?