this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2026
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[–] bearboiblake@pawb.social 66 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Israel must be dissolved. They will soon pivot to "oh, but we can just change the government! This particular government was evil, but we can replace them with the good guys and go back to supporting Israel", do not let them trick you. This is a genocidal, fascistic ethnostate from the top down. The entire purpose of the project of Zionism has been one of ethnic cleansing from the very start. Israel has got to go, forever, to be a historical footnote for school kids to learn about and say "never again".

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 52 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The more I read about Israel's behavior, the more anti-zionist I become.

One thing however needs to be made clear however:

Anti-zionism is not antisemitism.

Don't let the propaganda convince you otherwise.

There are plenty of jews who hate what Israel is doing and what it has become.

[–] Hakuso@scribe.disroot.org 26 points 2 days ago (3 children)

My line has been, and will always be:

The most antisemitic thing you can say is that Jew = Zionist.

It's not racial to be a sociopathic genocidal monster bent on control and domination.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Indeed.

Claiming that criticism of Zionism is anti-Semitism is claiming that the things that Zionists do are typical Jewish things to do. In other words, that it's a Jewish trait to:

  • See themselves as inherently superior to all others not of their ethnicity
  • Be extremelly racist, especially towards Muslims
  • Think that those born in specific ethnicities are "vermin"
  • Violently attack those of ethnities they see as "vermin" for no other reason than their ethnicity
  • Steal from those of ethnities they see as "vermin"
  • Calously murder civilians of ethnities they see as "vermin", including purposelly murdering children
  • Rape civilians of ethnities they see as "vermin"
  • Starve to death civilians of ethnicities they see as "vermin"
  • Commit Genocide
  • Run child sex honeypots for the purpose of gathering kompromat

and more.

In summary in light of the acts openly commited by those Zionists who have the power to freely act according to their ideology and the support of other Zionists for those acts, calling criticism of Zionism anti-semitism is the same as saying that the Jewish People as a whole are basically modern day NAZIs with different ubermenschen and untermenschen than the original NAZIs.

In summary, conflating Zionistm with the Jewish People as a whole and thus implying that being a Jew is to think and act similarly to NAZIs is indeed

The most antisemitic thing you can say

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

One thing however needs to be made clear however:

Anti-zionism is not antisemitism.

Why does that need to be your first concern? I dont know think accusations of anti semitism are particularly importtant in light of everything else going on. Someones feelings got hurt? oh no, lets stop talking about the murder of journalists and aid workers and get right on that antisemitism thing, because thats somehow got to come before everything else.

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

People lose their livelihood over antisemitism and the zionists know this and use it as a cudgel.

Genuinely this.

The label antisemitic has been so sullied its unrecoverable, get in line and be discriminated against by bigotry like everyone else. You aren't special.

[–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Saying "Jew = Zionist" is like saying "German = Nazi".

[–] kreskin@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

85% of Jewish people support the continued existence of Israel. So you're less than 15% right about that, but you're not completely wrong.

[–] bufalo1973@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago

Jewish or Israelis?

[–] bearboiblake@pawb.social 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I agree with you - conflating Jewish people with the state of Israel (or Zionism) is anti-semitic, although with that said, an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews support the state and the genocide.

With that said, I've got a very minor bit of pushback

There are plenty of jews who hate what Israel is doing and what it has become.

What it has become kind of implies some recent change from a historical version of Israel which wasn't genocidal. There were some very early idealistic views of Zionism in the 1940s, but it has pretty much always been a fascistic ethnostate. Most people just haven't been aware until recently.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What it has become kind of implies some recent change from a historical version of Israel which wasn't genocidal. There were some very early idealistic views of Zionism in the 1940s, but it has pretty much always been a fascistic ethnostate. Most people just haven't been aware until recently.

That is a perfectly fair point, I used the word "become" as I wasn't completely sure on how the behavior developed or if it had been part of Israel from the start.

I can also see the logic of the jewish perspective after the holocaust, as a people they were hunted and exterminated across Europe, and wanted a country of their own to feel safe and secure.

However, that doesn't give them the right to hunt and exterminate another people, which is where Israel lost the plot.

[–] bearboiblake@pawb.social 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Zionism actually predates the Holocaust by decades, though of course the aftermath of the Holocaust absolutely brought it to reality.

I understand the idealistic vision of Zionism, but the reality was obviously very different. Israel started existence by displacing people who were already living in a place. Colonial settlers pushing people out of their homes, violently, massacring them, poisoning wells and more - an act of ethnic cleansing known as the Nakba.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It was always a White Jewish Supremacist Colonialist project anchored on a late 19th century Western way of seeing the World (the same perspective as Europeans with "colonies" in Africa were they often forced the locals to work for them - a form of Slavery, not Chatel Slavery but still Slavery - or Canada's Indian Residential Shools).

Whilst most of the West actually evolved away from that (even if recently some of that was reversed), Israel was a bubble of White Jewish Supremacy (more White than Jewish, as shown by how the Israeli Authorities treated Black Jews from Ethiopia) stuck in time and with whatever little evolution toward Humanist values they imported via the minority of immigrants they had from the West (the majority by a wide margin of immigrants to Israel came from Russia and the Middle East, not the West) being reversed by amongst other things a Press and Politial environment that purposelly fed "Fear of the Other" and extreme Racism disguised as righteous anger at "violent" Palestinians (at times even openly called "vermin").

So yeah, not only was the Nakba a display of the dominant values in Israel (as is their overtly ethnically discriminatory Constitution), but since that time the country has not evolved away from that original perspective on other human beings and those racist late XIX century and early XX century views on human beings.

(Whilst, for example, Canada ended Indian Residential Shools and that is now looked back as a bad thing, Israel is right now commiting a Genocide in Gaza and Lebanon even more deadly than the Nakba and Israeli Jewish "settlers" are openly commiting a Pogrom on Palestinians in the West Bank with the support - sometimes activelly so - of the Israeli Police and Military)

[–] nlgranger@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The state need not cease to exist. The same could have been said about post-WWII Germany yet it still exists today. I guess it would take a similar level of engagement, involvement and actions to resolve the current situation (hopefully minus the mistakes made along the way at that time).

[–] bearboiblake@pawb.social 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Germany was dissolved post-WWII, and reformed later. It's also not a great example IMO, denazification in Germany was half-hearted and quickly abandoned, leaving many nazis in positions of power.

[–] nlgranger@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Agreed, but I doubt a better and faster solution is in reach for the current subject.

[–] bearboiblake@pawb.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not sure what you mean - if the international community embargoed and censured Israel in accordance with international law and withheld arms and support, the Israeli regime would collapse, very quickly - at which point the international community could step in and ensure that Palestine doesn't become a failed state, and handle a peaceful transition and ensure a thorough and comprehensive denazification program with proper trials for those who committed crimes, and a period of truth and reconciliation. I also believe that nations who have supported Israel's genocide of Gaza - such as the UK, Italy, Germany, the United States, et al. should also pay significant compensation to the Palestinian people.

Those in power don't want to give us any of this. They should be removed from power, by any means necessary.

[–] nlgranger@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I must be too old and cynical to see it that way, but if that's any excuse, I still respect people who stand for such aspirations.

[–] CumbrianCucumber@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well, the same kind of WAS said about post-WWII Germany. It was joint-colonised for half a century and ceased to exist as a single independent state until 1989, and even then, German reunification was pretty controversial

[–] nlgranger@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Indeed, I shouldn't have glossed over the time and difficulty of such processes. Whatever the solution, it's unlikely the process will take any less than one generation or 30 years.