No Stupid Questions

If you accept that there are moral/ethical problems with eating meat (contribution to climate change, health concerns, animals being killed and eaten, whatever), and choose to eat meat anyway, and encounter a vegan, what has to happen?

You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you're making a worse choice. Most people are cowards and protect the ego at any cost. Rather than shrugging and saying "yeah, i should eat less meat. Good for you taking the high road", which requires accepting that you're not being the best, you can instead grab onto any reasons why no it's really them that sucks. That's easier, more comfortable, and doesn't require any painful introspection or changes.

It's the same mechanism when people get mad at cyclists, pedestrians, people who go to the gym, people who don't shop at Walmart, whatever. They're doing something that makes you feel bad in comparison. Most people are terrible at that and will lash out instead of doing anything productive.

Alternatively, or maybe additionally, people are really tribal, and once they adopt the idea that vegans (or cyclists, or people driving small cars, or people wearing sandals, whatever) are in the outgroup, then they enjoy being hostile to them.

People are ego driven emotional morons. All of us. Me, too. It's terrible.

It's the fandom mostly. I like using Linux but I don't think you are immoral for using windows. Rick and Morty is funny but I don't think Rick is someone to take any advice from. CrossFit seems to work for most people who stick with it but it is one of many options. I won't apologize for being an atheist but I don't think you are stupid for not being one.

The problem with Veganism is the problem with monotheism. There is one proper way to live and all the others are wrong and awful.

That and the lying. I won't deny that there are farmers who abuse their animals, that is a problem that can be dealt with through the legal system, but you can't sell me a sack of lies claiming that I abused the cows I milked growing up. Because I know I didn't.

Imagine that you go to an outdoor barbecue on a bright Summer day.

And some guy who is an extreme Muslim is going around telling some women that they're not dressed in a modest enough way and that everybody should follow the Teachings of the Prophet and how life is a lot better when people follow the Teachings of the Prophet.

It's not Islam that's the problem, it's certain kinds of people, their proselytising and, worse, their trying to force or even impose their own moral values on others.

Same with Veganism and some kinds of Vegans: because it's a moral choice some of those who practice it have the very same behavioural disfunctions as religious nutters and because they're the most visible representatives of it they just cause many to draw negative conclusions about the entire thing.

It's a first world hill to die on, and many of the people who espouse veganism are only able to do so because of their own privilege.

It's a combination of smugness and "I'm better than you" and the lack of awareness that everyone had and continues to benefit from a world that has always used animal products. The Industrial Revolution basically ran on steam engines and leather belts, for example.

I have absolutely no problem with the idea that using fewer animal products and eating less meat is a good idea. I also recognize that feeding the world's growing population is probably going to involve insects being more widely used as a food source.

Currently being vegan or vegetarian is a choice of privilege. An healthy and varied diet becomes more difficult and expensive, when you start removing dishes from your pallet.

So it becomes coupled with a status symbol, instead of being the default way. As long as people call themselves "vegan" or "vegetarian" because of their choice (people being vegan or vegetarian because of mental or medical issues, is different case), they highlight that status over "normal" people.

If people are just not eating meat or animal products for whatever reason, without trying to use labels like "vegan" or "vegetarian" to highlight their status, then that is fine and a personal choice.

Creating societal change, to make vegan or vegetarian the default position, will also lessen the status of the vegans and vegetarians, that use those labels as such. So they have incentives to not produce a political or societal change.

Vegans & vegetarians should go on protests and lobby to make vegan food cheaper and easier than meat, so that it becomes the default. If they don't do that, and still call themselves vegan/vegetarian then that might imply that it is all about showing their status, and people don't like that.

Consumer choice is a privilege and not about creating an effective societal/political movement. They should not be used as a status symbol.

(Disclaimer: I eat meat and animal products very infrequently, only when my body demands it. I am also thankful for all vegans and vegetarians, because they gave us more interesting options in stores and restaurants.)