this post was submitted on 25 May 2026
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370
Sailfish OS showed me what Linux phones could actually be, and we need more of it (www.xda-developers.com)
submitted 6 days ago by favoredponcho@lemmy.zip to c/technology@lemmy.world
29 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://feddit.org/post/30351140

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[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 23 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I get (and share) the purist hate on saOS's non OSS UI, but to get linux phones up and running you need app support~1~ and market adoption (people buying phones) to make it a viable switch from the walled gardens for more people to use it, to get more hardware made and so on. Chicken and egg deal, bootstrapping. As such anything that gets people in front of linux phones should be embraced at this point, as long as it can run linux native code~2~ . When the snowball is rolling, then push for full OSS.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good (enough for now).

1: There's plenty of linux apps but few are designed for small touchscreens. Android emulation often takes us back to non open source anyway, even as it helps adoption.

2: and preferably can be re-flashed with something better later, which is becoming rare as bootloaders get locked down.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Is there a list of shit people need to develop for Linux phones? Drivers for xyz, reverse engineering something, something other, yada-yada? I see the argument a lot that Linux phones aren’t ready, but I’ve never seen a roadmap.

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 days ago

Old sailfish user here, currently on an iPhone. The following things are why I switched.

  • No support for Bluetooth LE, either natively or in the Android emulation. (So no smart watches, bike computers, etc.)
  • Bluetooth headphones worked fine. Mostly. And not with any good codecs.
  • The native app ecosystem was small. You will need to fallback to android emulation for a lot of things. In particular, good luck getting any commercial apps natively (trains, banks, and so on).
  • The native apps that existed were clearly hobby projects, mostly written by one person for the use of that person. Which is fine, but none of the apps I used left enough of an impression for me to remember them.
  • The web browser was fine to use, but absolutely not up to standard w.r.t. security (at that time). Plenty of known issues in the underlaying engine.
  • No decent native app for maps. I never tried a native app that managed over 15fps when scrolling around. I think I also had issues with position data in android apps…
  • Finally, I was constantly switching between two very different user experienced - emulated android and native sailfish.

Native sailfish was absolutely wonderful. It worked flawlessly when I stayed within the fearures that were available natively. But in modern society you simply can’t get away without all the android/ios stuff. At least not unless you have a lot of time and energy to fight the system, and I currently don’t have that.

This was a few years ago, so things may have changed for the better. I’ve been busy and haven’t kept track.

But if you want something to do - write an amazing maps app for native sailfish or get the Bluetooth LE-stuff working.

[–] vrozon@lemmy.ca 4 points 5 days ago

This project was started recently-ish and implies reverse engineering is the most important part. https://librephone.fsf.org/faq Haven't seen much else listed out.

[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I’ve never seen a roadmap

Neither have I, sounds like a good project in itself if it doesn't exist. 'Drivers for xyz, reverse engineering something' is part of the problem, phones usually (nearly always best I understand) have proprietary blobs of firmware to a greater or lesser degree and it's a moving target different between manufacturers and most often models. Qualcomm modems are particularly egregious for patent reasons. US trade deal enforced global DMCA laws make reverse engineering legally tricky. Hence the desire for linux specific hardware platforms.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

US trade deal enforced global DMCA laws make reverse engineering legally tricky

I love when the law concern itself with keeping the cat in the bag. The small anarchist in me wants to know what happens if someone reverse engineers something protected under DCMA, releases it, doesn’t claim credit. Now the software exists, so what does Uncle Sam do?

[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

keeping the cat in the bag

Just the neoliberal instinct to promote monopoly.

what does Uncle Sam do?

If you have adequate opsec, nothing ;}. At the moment, them pursuing it might provoke other governments to dump those laws, after all the deal was for tariff free trade, turn around is fair play. But manufacturers won't want to take the legal risk until it shakes out.

[–] timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works 37 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Honestly wish they just supported us bands. The ui is, IMO, the best you can get.

[–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 26 points 5 days ago

https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-phone-sep-ii-2026

Q:

Will the Jolla Phone work outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?

A:

Yes, we have designed the cellular band configuration to enable global traveling as much as possible, including e.g. roaming in the U.S. carrier networks.

4G & 5G global roaming modem configuration:

  • LTE FDD: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 28AB, 66
  • LTE TDD: 34, 38, 39, 40, 41
  • 5G NR: n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n8, n12, n20, n26, n28, n38, n40, n41, n66, n77, n78
[–] uuj8za@piefed.social 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It works on US bands! I have one! I've been able to send SMS and make phone calls fine on Mint Mobile.

(Still haven't had time to fully switch over from my Fairphone 6 though.)

Wait! Sorry.

Uh, I think you're talking about the Jolla C2 specifically. I can report that the Sony Xperia 10mk3 with SailfishOS works fine. Not sure about the C2.

[–] Solrac@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

Back when VoLTE launched, they ran tests, and ever T-Mo based MVNO and T-Mo itself worked just fine.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 28 points 5 days ago (2 children)

If it's not open source as much as reasonably possible, it's ultimately no better than Android. Kind of annoyed that distinctions need to be made between "real" Linux and "fake" Linux.

[–] enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Sailfish is real linux. It runs wayland and systemd with a user interface in Qt. I can enable developer mode and ssh into my phone and just sudo as much as I want, or just install a compiler and do whatever I want.

Linux was always intended to be used like this, commercially, straight from Linus’s mouth. Development requires time, which requires money, as developers need to eat.

I doubt there are that many people working for free on the kernel, most are paid by hardware vendors and support contracts. The balance between open source and funded development is what makes it work. Having everything be fully open, all the way through the stack, would require a fundamentally different funding model globally, basically overthrowing capitalism. I’m not saying a change of scenery wouldn’t be nice, but we can progress out from under big tech without trying to get everyone to be like Stallman.

Now, what you are really looking for is a Hurd based phone.

[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 days ago

Hurd-y Gurd-y maan over here

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

It can't be much poorer made than Android, so it sure is better.

[–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 13 points 5 days ago

Oh there's a lot of room to the bottom, ask me about Windows CE on mobile phones back in the time.

No, now that I think back... please don't ask. I want to forget.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 5 days ago

This is how enshittification perpetuates.

[–] garbage_world@lemmy.world 18 points 5 days ago (2 children)

SaOS is proprietary garbage, which crosses it out from any consideration.

[–] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 22 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Sounds like you're letting 'perfect' be the enemy 'good'.
An OS not being abused by Google or Apple to corral users is good enough for me.
I couldn't care less whether it's proprietary in this case.

Give me a fully open source phone, that's capable of being a daily driver without funneling data to Google or Apple and we're talking!
How nice that people can have different requirements for their phones 😉

[–] garbage_world@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

I could agree with that argumentation if saOS was significantly better than it's peers (pmOS, Ubuntu Touch and few more), but it isn't. It is only slightly better and it has significant disadvantages (main one being lack of free (as in free beer) android app "emulation")

[–] Solrac@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

Then use nuevNemo instead

[–] coriza@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The biggest hurdle for a Linux phone is proprietary drivers. On a PC you can swap parts, you can add a USB wifi or sound card on a laptop, but on a phone you are kinda stuck with all the stuff on the phone, so the problem with binary blobs is so much worse, and untill we don't have at least the full drivers source or datasheet as an normal part of phone releases it will always be an impossible to win catch-up race.

At least phones are not getting that much better anymore so is starting to be feasible to floss hackers to fully port Linux to some phones in time for them to still be usable (battery problems a part).

[–] DanVctr@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 days ago

Damn floss hackers broke into my dentist's office again

[–] artyom@piefed.social 7 points 5 days ago

could actually be

But unfortunately aren't currently...

[–] goatinspace@feddit.org 7 points 6 days ago

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 4 points 5 days ago

Nice to see the UI hasn't changed much in the last 10 years.

[–] aquovie@lemmy.cafe 2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

More than a phone, I want a good 7-10" Linux tablet. Something like a Samsung Tab S7 but pure Linux, not Android. Full-fat USB-C (video out, etc) with a slim keyboard cover. I seem to have a lot of low-level hacker-y needs while out and about but I don't want to always carry my laptop.

These days a tablet is a luxury, a phone is a necessity. You can iterate a mobile UI on a tablet slowly. Shooting to replace a phone means you need to hit a much higher bar of quality. It seems like an easier path to adoption.

[–] greybeard@feddit.online 2 points 5 days ago

You know what made a good Linux Tablet? The Microsoft Surface Gos. I got a few second hand from work and they were nice at the time. A little light on RAM by modern standards, but size and shape was good, and Linux ran remarkably well on them.

[–] ApertureUA@lemmy.today 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I got one of those ARM Chromebooks specifically for this (PostMarketOS, no keyboard cover tho) but now it's mostly collecting dust since I have a laptop and just use that. Although someone in the house uses it for watching very legally obtained shows in mpv... though "uses" is a strong word since I basically press all of the buttons for them. Shame it's not getting more use though, as it is about 40x more power efficient than said laptop. Maybe with a USB-C dock that costs 2x more than the thing... My phone also collects dust silently until I need 2fa from it since I don't even have a SIM card.