this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024

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195

Report: Consumer Hardware Still Often Impossible To Repair Despite New State ‘Right To Repair’ Laws (www.techdirt.com)

submitted 1 year ago by ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

17 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The U.S. Public Interest Research Group (PIRG) examined 21 different mainstream tech devices subject to New York's recently passed electronics Right to Repair law, and found mixed results:
- 9 devices earned A's or B's (including all smartphones)
- 3 products received D's
- 6 popular mainstream devices earned F's
The devices that fared poorly, like the HP Spectre Fold laptop, Canon EOS r100 camera, and Apple Vision Pro/Meta Quest 3 VR headsets, usually lacked spare parts or useful repair manuals.
While New York's law requires manufacturers to provide tools, manuals, and parts for affordable, easy repair, PIRG says the law has been watered down with loopholes, and there has been no enforcement action taken despite numerous companies failing to comply.
The cellphone sector has made significant strides in repairability, but other sectors like VR headsets and cameras still have major issues.
30 states are considering "right to repair" legislation in 2024, but these bills are at risk of being weakened by industry lobbyists.

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[+] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] dojan@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Aye. If changing a bulb is that involved the car isn’t that good.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That has generally always been true and is a function of there just being only so much space.

Actually open up the hood of your car. Take a look inside. Most of that is engine, battery, and reservoirs. In a sedan or a small SUV there just isn't a lot of room to make everything accessible from the top. Whereas jacking it up, popping off a wheel, and reaching in for the thing you might touch once in the lifetime of a car is pretty trivial.

Back in the day? I remember my dad having the kids sit in the engine of his pickup truck and my mom's giant ass SUV to follow instructions and work on it. But you would need a REALLY small child to do that in a sedan.

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whereas jacking it up, popping off a wheel, and reaching in for the thing you might touch once in the lifetime of a car is pretty trivial.

Unless the car has LED lights, those headlights are going to be replaced a half dozen times at least. As a necessary safety feature, headlights should be easily accessed so a new bulb can be installed inmediately.

If the story is true, that is terrible design.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I mean, basically any car in the past decade or so has LED headlights? And older bulbs would generally be rated for between 500 and 3000 hours of use, depending on the model. Considering people often try to avoid driving at night (... in part because of those LED headlights), once or twice over the decade or so lifespan of a car is pretty reasonable.

Also: Popping a wheel off is not really that hard and is something people should know how to do anyway in the event they get a flat on the side of the road. Finding a place you can do work on your car is a real problem with apartment life but setting the jack, jacking it up, and taking off the wheel is maybe 20 minutes of effort if you aren't experienced with it. Then reach under, swap out the bulbs, and you are done.

Like, this really feels like the usual kind of discourse around this. People want to be able to repair stuff but don't understand what that actually entails. If jacking up your car is not something you are comfortable with, don't do it. Pay someone to do it for you. Same with all the people who think they are going to re-solder every single connection on a tiny chip.

It is going to vary from car to car (can't wait for the person who insists their brand new 2010 car that nobody ever heard the name of doesn't have this problem...). But the general rule of thumb is that the easy stuff is accessible from just popping your hood. Refill reservoirs, look at your engine and say "that ain't right", and swap out batteries. For stuff like draining and replacing oil or swapping out long lasting bulbs? Prop that shit.

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shouldn't need to pay someone to install a headlight bulb.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Then learn how to prop up your car and work on it yourself?

Like, that is the reality of it. Headlight bulbs aren't going to change themselves if you wish really hard. Same with a flat tire. So you either learn how to do it (preferably before you are in the mud on the side of i-95 in the rain) or you pay someone.

The reason why Right to Repair laws are so good in concept (if not execution) is that it means you aren't paying Toyota to come change your tire for you. You are paying a local mechanic who is theoretically not ripping you off.

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are tons of cars that have been designed to be easy to work on. I have worked on my own cars for over three decades. Every vehicle I have owned allowed the headlight bulbs to be reached by opening the hood. Well, I might need to check my new one because I haven't needed to yet since it has LEDs.

There is no reason to excuse poor maintenance design as some kind of unavoidable necessity.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. And over the past three decades there have been a lot of advancements and improvements as well as a general push for larger engines for both efficiency and "number go up" horsepower. Also structural design to increase safety in the event of a collision.

The reality is that there has always been stuff you can repair just by popping a hood and stuff you need to prop it up for. And there have always been people who decide to reach under the car to drain the oil and pollute their local sewers.

Any form of engineering is a trade off. And if you compare "under the hood" for a car from the 90s versus one from the 2020s, it is going to look a lot more packed. And, at some point, having super easy panels to open up once or twice over the lifespan of a vehicle is just not a priority for anyone other than someone on the internet looking for something to be angry about.

When it is a case of needing to go in for maintenance to re-approve all my parts? Fuck that noise (also why anyone who ever plans to do electrical work should get one of those code readers to reset the error light...). When it is me being expected to do something incredibly basic like "prop up the car and remove a wheel"? If you aren't comfortable doing that then you aren't comfortable "working on" your car.

[–] jwiggler@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you aren't comfortable doing that then you aren't comfortable "working on" your car.

You've written a whole lotta junk to essentially end on, "if you can't jack up your car and remove the wheel, you shouldn't be changing your headlight in the first place."

Which is quite a dumb take.

[–] jmp242@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

I mean, most people don't think ease of changing a light bulb (that they never have to do) is a deal breaker for a car. I haven't had to change a headlight since they went to LEDs. My last car that was 7 years of owning it.

I think we should insist on making things repairable, but should focus on the things that come up frequently.

Because everything is a tradeoff, things like how often it is likely to need repair, how much the car costs, functionality of the car day to day, looks, gas mileage, heck a lot of stuff will come before a once a decade thing that you're either going to pay a shop to do or trade before it's an issue.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Same with all the people who think they are going to re-solder every single connection on a tiny chip.

lol I finally hacked my original switch to eventually dual boot android and was considering doing it on my OLED, too.

Then I watched the guides on the mod chip process. Fuck that.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No no no. Don't you see, Right To Repair means that it is a legal requirement for every single company to provide a button that will fix and do anything you want at zero cost to you!

You know, as opposed to minimizing unnecessarily coupled parts and part signing to prevent third party companies who do have the fancy oven to desolder a chip from charging you to do it. And... some of that is definitely people like Rossman who will gladly switch between talking to consumers and other repair companies as it suits his argument.

Also: While I firmly do not expect a switch to last anywhere near long enough to make it worth doing, it is also totally worth doing a soldering project or two. It is a good skill to have and gives you a lot more insight into what is being talked about when these topics come up.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not anti soldering. I've done some wires or whatever.

But they're scraping away covering on traces and it looked like cutting into stuff on top of the package. It's for sure beyond my skill level, and while the OLED was worth the money as an original switch owner for the bigger screen (I play almost all handheld), the difference in effort to hack it? Not so much.

[–] Chee_Koala@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

There has been an upward trend in this, so 'that has generally always been true' is not true. I know because I drive proof of it, an EP9 1997 Toyota Starlet. I think the only thing that would really suck is replacing the electric cable tree or bigger dashboard stuff, everything else is basically directly accessible from the hood and trunk. Everyone that has owned a car around me knows that older cars are a lot more accessible for home repairs, so I'm interested to know where you got this?

[–] BrightCandle@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The law comes in two parts, the actual written bit that says what it is and the enforcement. Most people consider the first part what is necessary and lobby hard for it but really the most important bit in a practical sense is how it gets applied and enforced, without which the law is worthless. In many countries one way to defang laws is simply underfund the legal system or quangos that do the enforcement, another is putting someone in charge at the attornies office who de-prioritises those cases. The law as written isn't worth the paper/bytes its written on unless there is a plan for enforcement that doesn't involve every poor person using the rich mans legal system against giant corporations with infinite defence money.

[–] NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Not a surprise considering Governor Hochul sabotaged the bill just before signing it:
https://odysee.com/governor-hochul-sabotages-ny-right-to

[–] fxdave@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

You can't make a law for everything evil that corporations do. Social democracy is flawed inherently. We need direct decision power of people in those firms. Never gonna happen though.