this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2026

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‘Here is where hope lies’: Palestinians and Israelis mourn losses in joint ceremony (www.972mag.com)

submitted 1 day ago by theacharnian@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

14 comments fedilink hide all child comments

In a secret location due to right-wing attacks in previous years, bereaved families recognized each other's grief and called for a shared future.

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[–] GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Here's to hope for better times ahead, for everyone.

[–] imahappyguy@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

Death is the only thing that unites the human race. We will all die, someday. It's beautiful to see shared grief. The pain of endless decades, over a half century, of occupation. The pain of innocent Israelis killed by their own country over 20 years. Because the Hannibal directive isn't the only time Israel kills it's own people. There is so much grief that it's saddening to see an event like this and see people measuring grief. If you lost your mother and I lost my mother and father, would I not still weep over your mother? Don't let pain divide us further. The innocent people of both countries who don't want violence are victims. Those who desire violence, deserve to die by the sword.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I have so much admiration for everyone involved in this. The stories of loss are unbearable.

But what is really, clearly unbearable, for Zionists, is to see that it's possible to be scared and angry and still recognize the humanity in everyone, and seek peace over vengence.

It's no wonder Zionists hate this event so much. Can you imagine seeing others demonstrate the courage and moral integrity you've abandoned? And knowing that it's proof that contrary to your constant claims, you have no entitlement to your cruelty: you're just a hateful, selfish monster?

It's an incredible display of the power of unbreakable hope. May we all find peace and success soon, soon, soon.

[+] Tolc@lemmy.world -6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

what a joke

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

[–] Tolc@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I dont care about israeli loses in "conflict". I dont give a fuck about their mourning, they are occupiers and they get only a fraction of what they deserve

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHylQRVN2Qs

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I could quote to you parts of the article that explain why this kind of attitude is ridiculous and disconnected from the reality of Palestinians and Israelis that organize with personal danger against the apartheid and occupation but I'd end up copying the entire article. Go read it before playing the edgelord.

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Palestinian here. FUCK that shit.

Israelis are occupying our land and genociding us in the open. These attempts to paint them as equal victims only perpetuate the genocide and colonization of Palestine.

Anything less than allowing us our legal right of return and giving us reparations is just letting them get away with their decades of crimes because some of us dared to fight back.

We call Palestinians engaging in these events collaborators, or generously we could use the Zionist/American favorable term "useful idiots."

Imagine a woman being publicly beat by her husband for decades and finally decides enough is enough and gouges his eye, and then holds an event to mourn both her scars/wounds and his eye. Would you be celebrating it, or would you say "hold up, something isn't right here"?

You could also read the article you shame people and declare they haven't read:

On the other hand, some pro-Palestinian voices have suggested that the ceremony advances a liberal Zionist narrative of false equivalence between Israeli and Palestinian suffering.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

There is a difference between you making those judgement calls within your own community and us from outside picking and choosing good and bad Palestinians. The commenter I responded to above has no standing to condemn the people that pour their energy in organizing this event.

In fact from where I'm standing I'm seeing the genocidal Israeli right getting pissed off by this and trying to violently shut it down, so they must be doing something right. Such as:

The ceremony offered bereaved Israeli and Palestinian families a rare space to jointly mourn loved ones lost to the conflict, and to raise their voices in calling for an end to war and Israeli occupation.

And there is a distinction between goals, strategy and tactics. The right of return and reparations are goals. These kinds of initiatives are tactics. And you can meaningfully debate with other Palestinians their efficacy or on diversity of tactics but I don't think the jury is out on that debate, such that would compel outsiders to declare something like this a meaningless joke.

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Yes, they're tactics. Tactics to create a false equivalency of suffering between the occupied and the occupier.

These groups don't call for ending occupation as those words mean, they mean leaving the West Bank. If Israel exists as a Jewish supremacist ethno-religous state on stolen Palestian land, the occupation isn't over. If they dismantle all their checkpoints, if they tear down the wall on Palestinian territory, if they remove their soldiers and stop shooting out children for sport, they're still occupying our land, our only access to the ocean, our oil, our fresh water sources, our fertile lands, our grandparents' graveyards, and our homes to which we still have keys. The "two state solution" is a liberal Zionist tool used to make the colonization of Palestine palatable for western audiences.

Ending occupation means a free Palestine from the river to the sea, and these groups aim to twist the meaning of words to make forcing us into a small land with no military and choking us economically so we continue to leave in search of better life. They want to end "occupation" so they can focus on colonization.

Of course the more extreme don't like that plan, they want to exterminate Palestinians and get it over with as quickly as possible. That's where their opposition comes from, not from a principal disagreement on the existence of a Jewish only state on colonized land, they all agree on that part.

And you can meaningfully debate with other Palestinians their efficacy or on diversity of tactics but I don't think the jury is out on that debate

You know, we aren't just sitting around debating these issues a few times a year when Israel is in the news. We spent decades thinking about this, and we have a very mature body of literature on the topic. Ghada Karmi, Ali Abunimah, Yousef Munayyer, Mouin Rabbani, Hani Faris, Edward Said, and Ghassan Kanafani are just a few Palestinian intellectuals/authors you could read to better understand this very much settled debate.

The existence of collaborators and propagandized Palestinians who aren't well read on their own history (as a product of the ongoing colonization) doesn't mean the "jury is out on the debate", they aren't part of the debate.

such that would compel outsiders to declare something like this a meaningless joke.

Yet you feel compelled as an outsider to speak with such authority and conviction.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 0 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

I'm not going to enter into a discussion about the righteousness or the feasibility or political usefuless of this or that solution as my opinion on the matter ultimately doesn't matter.

I will only point to this key phrase of what you wrote:

The existence of collaborators and propagandized Palestinians who aren’t well read on their own history (as a product of the ongoing colonization) doesn’t mean the “jury is out on the debate”, they aren’t part of the debate.

Because this what it boils down to, right? Palestinians are not a monolith, even if you, a Palestinian, cast out of the story some (a few?) other Palestinians as irrelevant to recreate a kind of monolith that you can call "a very mature body of literature" (and whoever is outside that is "not part of the debate", i.e., outside the monolith).

And here's the thing. You can do that. I can't. You have a "we" to refer to. I don't. I only have a "you" (the plural you, vous, εσεις). So, I don't have the standing to take this step and label Palestinians who don't share your political vision as "collaborators" and "propagandized" even if yours is the majority opinion. Small example: the Barghouthis are calling for releasing Marwan Barghouthi as a step to revive the two state solution. Am I to start going around like an asshole calling Marwan fucking Barghouthi a propagandized collaborator? You can, without being an asshole. I can't. Same with the people whose event the other commenter called a joke. You can call them a joke. The other commenter can't.

So, I am also not going to start going around like a western asshole shitting on people on the ground who risk their safety, going against the genocidal Israeli right on a project of shared grief like this. In the exact same way that I don't go around blanketly condemning groups that take on armed struggle to exercise the Palestian people's legal right to armed resistance to occupation under international law.

And for the same reason, I'm going to call the other commenter out, just like I would (and have) call out someone for blanketly denouncing Palestinian armed resistance.

Yet you feel compelled as an outsider to speak with such authority and conviction.

I don't claim authority. I do claim the conviction of my own ideas and a measure of consistency in their application.

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Are Trump supporters part of the intellectual debate on democracy?

No, we're not a monolith, but not everyone can contribute intellectually. Yes, Fateh and Mahmoud Abbas are widely seen as collaborators, and have been for a long time now, but especially what they've done to oppress Palestinians since the Gaza genocide started.

I think Marwan Bargouti has potential to unite people, and if anything radicalizes you to not collaborate with Israel it's Israeli prison. And he has spoken more recently in support of a one state solution so I think he has potential, but the narrative that he's our Mandela is a romantic myth; imagine if Mandela fought for a black only ghettos as a state within South Africa instead of pushing for economic sanctions against the apartheid government.

That said, his children arguing for his release using the two state solution rhetoric doesn't have as much weight as you're implying it does.

So, I am also not going to start going around like a western asshole shitting on people on the ground who risk their safety, going against the genocidal Israeli right on a project of shared grief like this. In the exact same way that I don't go around blanketly condemning groups that take on armed struggle to exercise the Palestian people's legal right to armed resistance to occupation under international law.

False equivalence.

And for the same reason, I'm going to call the other commenter out, just like I would (and have) call out someone for blanketly denouncing Palestinian armed resistance.

Stick to the latter. "this kind of attitude is ridiculous and disconnected from the reality of Palestinians" this is you engaging in an argument on behalf of Palestinians and their reality, and you should expect to be called out in the same manner as the user you called out, who expressed an opposing Palestinian viewpoint.

Why do you feel entitled to express a Palestinian viewpoint but they aren't? Have a measure of consistency in applying your criticism.

to recreate a kind of monolith that you can call "a very mature body of literature" (and whoever is outside that is "not part of the debate", i.e., outside the monolith).

I didn't exclude them from the intellectual argument and literature, they are absent from it.

Not every Palestinian wants Marwan released, and not for the reason you might think, some view him as a violent murderer who stands in the way of peace, believe it or not a lot of Palestinians oppose armed resistance, which you rightfully said shouldn't be condemned.

I hope I'm not being repetitive and I hope I'm getting my point across. We're not a monolith, but not every opinion deserves to be entertained respectfully by the simple merit of coming from a Palestinian's mouth. I'll bring up Trump supporters as an analog, a lot of them genuinely believe they are supporting the best future for their country and people (we'll ignore the truly racist and just want others to suffer portion for now), does their view that Trump is protecting democracy and freedom need to be amplified and given equal weight because Americans are not a monolith?

It's a stretchy analogy, I know, we live in Idiocracy now, but you understand what I'm saying?

I think you mean well, but I think you consume too much liberal Zionist propaganda, which is really convincing if you don't interrogate it strongly.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 hours ago

“this kind of attitude is ridiculous and disconnected from the reality of Palestinians” this is you engaging in an argument on behalf of Palestinians and their reality

Got me. You're right. I concede the point.

What I should have said is "they feel they're doing the right thing within their reality we from the outside we should not judge them".

For most of the other points, I'm not sure I have anything to add, it's becoming belaboured at this point.

On the Trump analogy I think you're wrong. On two counts.

First: For the sake of argument only I'm going to call the Palestinians engaging with what you call liberal Zionists "defeatists". I'm not saying i see them as such but let's use this word to caricature them. So: defeatists are nowhere near the same thing as collaborationists. Even if we agree that Abbas is acting as the long arm of Netanyahu, that's not the same as the defeatists who see a human connection in grief and want to chant kumbaya with Israelis who oppose the genocide and the apartheid. That's nowhere near the same. It's a world of difference between active collaboration with a genocidal apartheid regime and the hosting of common events with people who also oppose that regime. Just like Palestinians are not a monolith, so aren't Israelis.

Second: Yes, Trumpists get a say on a discussion about democracy. I'm not American, so I'll extrapolate to my own contexts. Yes, far right nationalists, stupid as they are, are my co-citizens. So long as they're not trying to do a coup, yes, they do belong in a discussion about democracy. I can't flick my magic wand and make millions of right wingers disappear, so finding a way to have a discussion about the rules of the democratic game is absolutely important. I'm not saying anyone should be conceding any arguments to them. I do believe in the cordon sanitaire approach, and more crucially I believe in populist policies to "drain the swamp" on which the fascists feed. But you can't mute and block your way out of proto-fascism.

Anyway, thanks for introducing me to Ghassan Kanafani, I didn't know, holy shit.