ADHD

Right there with you. I've seen the school photos my parents keep: at 13 it's a normal photo, at 14 I have deep grey shadows under my eyes. I haven't been able to sleep "normallly" since then. I was diagnosed a couple years ago at 35; getting on stimulants improved my waking life immeasurably, but the messed up sleep remained. One of the Drs recommended melatonin; this is the only thing that has ever really helped. It kinda short circuits my brain's intention to stay awake until 4am looking for who knows what, and when I fall asleep I really sleep. Still only manage a few hours of sleep when I'm getting up at normal o'clock for work, but at least I'm getting up.

I don't have real advice, this is mainly for solidarity. I'm tired too.

Hi, I have a lot of experience dealing with sleep issues (in treatment for a severe circadian rhythm disorder for 10 years and used to have insomnia additonally)

If you haven't also made changes to improve sleep hygiene, its like the absolute #1 most important thing with insomnia (having a consistent bedtime is an excellent start. If not the case already, try to create a consistent routine around sleep. Dont spend any time in bed not asleep- don't do any of your daytime activities in bed, sex usually being considered an exception, don't get into bed until sleepy, if you can't fall asleep within ~30min, get up and do something to wind down again and try again once sleepy. If you wake up and can't fall back asleep, do the same. When you wake up in the morning get out of bed as quickly as you can rather than relaxing in bed, a comfortable chair and blankets close to bed that you can move to help make that easier)

Sleep hygiene is a term you can look up for more info, its the most important starting place for insomnia if you're not already attending to it.

Also, you should know that the correct dosage for melatonin is generally considered about .5mg taken (I believe) 3h before you want to sleep. I currently take .3mg/300mcg from Carlyle medicine on amazon, they've seemed to be the lowest cost option for low dose when I've looked

I say I believe because for my sleep disorder research now points to taking it even earlier, 5-8h before sleep, but I don't think thats applicable to insomnia, just circadian rhythm disorders

Something I've been finding a lot of success with lately is a warm shower before bed. Your circadian rhythm is primarily regulated by light, but temperature also plays a big role, both internal and external temp. In the evening your internal body temp will peak a couple hours before bedtime and then start to decrease. This is a que that its time for you to sleep. When you take a warm shower it increases bloodflow to your extremities and once you get out that bloodflow to the outer edges of your body actually causes you to shed heat, helping your body temperature decrease. It seems like research generally points to 1-2h before bed for maybe like 15min, but research on specifics of how and when is most helpful is still ongoing and not totally concrete. And I saw the comment from a doctor somewhere that wearing socks would hinder your ability to cool down this way which makes sense so I try not to cover my hands or feet when I get out. I find it doesn't need to be that far in advance of bedtime to be helpful for me

The last thing I'll mention is that in some cases the circadian rhythm disorder "Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder/Syndrome" (DSPD/DSPS) can look like insomnia, and will generally be different in that if you try to maintain a delayed scheduled sleep will get easier, as the problem is actually that your body's circadian rhythm is delayed, so its hard to get to bed when you expect to be able to. Sleep apnea can also sometimes look like insomnia. Seeing a good sleep provider to rule out other explanations or identify if there's more going on there may be a good idea if the issue persists.

Sending love and hugs my friend, sleep issues are fucking miserable 🫂 I'm rooting for you, good luck. If you have any questions about things I've said feel free to ask

Don't know how it interacts with ADHD or your meds. But phenibut is phenomenal if you want to sleep. But maybe not so good to take on the reg.

The meds for many people reduce sleep quality. You should talk to your doctor. Drug, dosage, and timing can help. As others said, you should do a sleep study.

One thing you didn’t mention is exercise; it may help, but it’s not a panacea. It should be completed well before sleep, as intense exercise is stimulating.

Blue light filters are simply nowhere near as effective as simply dimming the lights and taking screens out of the equation for those hours is more effective. But again, this is far from a panacea.

I do a one hour walk every day. I typically get 6-7km for each walk. It really helps me, otherwise my brain works in overtime when I lay down.

It doesn't matter when I do it, as long as I do it.

Same dude. I found getting physically tired helps me align my mental state with my body so I actually sleep. If I don't get enough exercise my dreams get too intense and I only sleep a few in restful hours that night.

No idea if it will help you but it helped me. I jump rope while listening to music or a podcast. It's easy to get lost in the rhythm until I'm tired enough.

The trick is staying hydrated without drinking so much you wake up needing to pee in the middle of the night.

Stimulants messed up my ability to stay asleep so my provider gave me Trazodone which worked but made me too drowsy during the day (they suggested melatonin but that makes me even drowsier than the Trazodone). They switched me to Baclofen which is a muscle relaxer that helps with staying asleep which is all I need since the stimulants actually made it easier for me to fall asleep. Between that, good sleep hygiene, and a CPAP I usually get pretty good sleep nowadays.

Maybe look into a sleep study. I wear a CPAP after getting diagnosed with Sleep Apnea. I hate wearing it but the sleep I get is worth it.

My friend who has fairly severe AuDHD self medicates a lot with recreational marijuana to get reliable sleep on work nights. Obviously that's not always the best choice without a doctor's advice and you may not be in a legal state/country.

Similar experience across the board and always chronically tired, but no effective treatment found yet. It's rough

The best sleep I ever got was when my doc put me on Ritalin. Out cold 12-20 hours a day, and still sleepy when awake. It was awful.

Some forms of magnesium can help with sleep. Magnesium threonate makes me tired but doesn't have a rebound effect like melatonin where I jolt awake when it wears off. The only issue is its cost, though it's worth it for me.

I'm the same as you and I haven't found anything that works perfectly either. In fact my sleep has only gotten worse with time. I really wish I could help you out. I also have a weighted blanket and all that. I tried podcasts too like the SleepWithMe podcast with mixed results. I'm pretty noise sensitive so while it can sometimes help me scramble my thoughts in bed and aid in falling asleep it can also often wake me back up, especially the sudden silence after an episode ends can ironically alert me.

I've been taking Alimemazine lately which is a strong antihistamine and it is the best medication I've found in terms of sleep aid that can be taken daily. Makes you tired as fuck the morning after though, really takes a few hours to shake off.

Zopiclone helps with falling asleep but you can't take it more than maybe once a week. If you mostly struggle with falling asleep (as opposed to staying asleep) then it can be a good tool to reset every once in a while, or to ensure a good night's sleep before an important event etc. Unfortunately for me I've started waking up multiple times at night the past few years so I'm not getting the same value out of it that I used to.

I had a lot of problems to sleep as well. What woks for me is doing excercise and a fan/air mover to make white noise.

My son's meds messed up his sleep schedule, so he takes a prescription sleep aid to knock him out at a reasonable time so he's rested when it's time to get ready for school.

I've got mild sleep apnea and most likely PLMS. My wife has restless leg syndrome. She also has a weighted blanket and uses melatonin. She listens to boring/calming youtube vids via an ear phone. She takes cold showers to numb her legs. She has to take naps during the day to function.

Both of us have ADHD. We also tried the things you did.

All I can offer are a few things I've started doing differently:

Using a sleep mask and wearing an ear plug (Loops is the brand) at night. Just one, as I sleep on my side. People with ADHD do suffer from sensory issues, so might not like sleeping with things on their face and in ears.

I found cutting off excess light and particularly random sounds (birds, traffic noise, voices etc) made getting to sleep a lot easier. Yes I periodically lose/drop my ear buds, but that's a different issue.

I bought extra pillows to support my body.

Another thing I noticed only last week, after almost decades of lying in bed stretching my legs half asleep, trying to get rid of aches. I found that the uncomfortable feeling was coming from muscles in my thighs. Massaging, stretching has made a difference. Tension in shoulders, neck and jaw can go unnoticed for a long time.

It's also very easy to lay in bed with loads of things on your mind. I created a set of stories/fantasies that I play out in my head. It helps me to down out unintrusive thoughts.

On a side note, I heard that an Ex-Top Gear presenter (also Adhd) imagine he's driving down his favourite roads.

The fact is, a lot of people's body clocks are different. If it wasn't for societal working hours and adult responsibilities, I know both me and my wife would sleep till late morning, work into the night. Maybe even nap during the day.