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I think people are in some denial downvoting this. It's a pretty hard take, but accurate. The real progressives in the Democratic Party (Sanders, AOC, etc.) are definitely not establishment Democratic members, remember how Sanders was railroaded out of any chance to run as President?
The USA needs a third party, and the Democratic party needs a real fumigating.
EDIT: Did Biden really increase ICE funding? (Or at least allow it)
Prior to Trump's second term Biden increased ICE funding to their highest levels and accelerated the building of ICE detention centers across the country.
I think there's valuable nuance in noting exceptions to the rule about Dems, but also, the parties are systemically entrenched and the insiders certainly collude on behalf of the status quo.
"I agree. People are in denial."
"Edit: did this really happen?"
LOL
I was being lazy, I admit -- something I could have looked up myself ;)
There you have it, the reason we're in this fucking mess.
So since AOC and Sanders will NEVER get into a position of power, we're just fucked right?
There is no way out of this except war. Voting doesn't work.
Show us in the post where they make any distinctions between "establishment" dems and just democrats.
I'm comfortable inferring it, even if it wasn't explicitly stated. I'll recant if OP makes a clarification that contradicts this.
That's not what "just as" means
yeah, Democrats are complicit in plenty of ways, but not just as complicit 🙄
I can't tell if the hyperbole is just because the culture is so right wing and the assumption is that they need to shock liberals out of their stupor, but tbh I don't think liberals even like the Democrats that much, there is plenty of hate and frustration with the Dems coming from liberals these days ... at least that's my experience
Ive noticed a general tendency, which exists to a pretty large degree in every place and group to be fair- but which I've noticed even more than usual on lemmy, to treat everything as if it exists on a moral binary. Like there's only good things and bad things, and all bad things are equally bad things with no room for "X is bad and Y is worse than X, therefore X is better than Y despite both being bad", and if something is opposed to a bad thing it must be good regardless of whatever else it involves, or conversely, if something apparently opposed to a bad thing is also worthy of criticism, then it must not truly be opposed and is only pretending because they're both on the side of bad things. I'm sure there's a word for this kind of thinking, but I'm too sleepy at the moment to recall or look into it.
maybe black and white thinking describes what you are talking about?
The more Trump does, the more obvious it becomes that they are very much not the same.
Democrats said the same thing during his first term yet rolled back very little of what he did. Like someone said in another thread, do you think Democrats are going to fire all of these ice agents that Trump brought on when they regain control, or that they are going to restore the gerrymandered districts and states? That's how the Democrat ratchet effect works. The Republicans shift everything to the right and Democrats prevented from slipping back
Not rolling back and implementing are not the same things. You may not appreciate the difference but that doesn't erase that difference.
Not rolling back condones the decision. That's their ratchet effect in action and how politics have moved so far to the right
Which may not be good, but makes them different, which is your argument.
Biden wrote the Crime Bill. He said “super predators”.
And if that doesn’t describe the current guy to a tee.
Hell even if you wrongly believe Obama and Biden where only using these systems for "right" Liberals seem to completely lack a material understanding of what these systems can do when expanded like that.
Obama expanded drone strikes. He used them for wrong, did it for years, and got a fucking Nobel Peace Prize for it. Fuck that guy.
Technically got the Nobel Peace Prize before all that, which makes it all the Dumber.
Over 2k drone strikes and they wonder why all the hate for America
Trips me out that people think he's a peaceful president, I think he still has the record for the most bombs dropped during his presidency...
No he got a peace prize before he fucking did anything
The peace prize was gaslighting
There's also not a lot of willingness to roll things back whenever the Republicans lose power for a time. Like, for the sake of argument, lets say Trump and his allies fail to sufficiently gerrymander or rig or cancel or just win the next couple of elections, and manage to lose control of both congress and the presidency. Does anyone really expect all those new ICE agents they hired to be suddenly fired, rather than just continue to do what they're doing without as much media attention driving public ire against them once the president isnt going on rants about deporting people all the time?
we don't need to stop it we can change it! - - dems
Both parties are owned by Israel and the same Zionist oligarchs so until this FACT changes nothing else will