this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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Remember kids, Tankies wants to undermine democracy - same as facists.

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[–] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Just like fascists, tankies could theoretically hang out here without getting the boot. It's just that genocide denying authoritarians cannot be tolerated in a tolerant, democratic society. The reason tankies and fascists get the boot is because they can't resist trying to bully and intimidate those that find their views abhorrent. They simply can't resist being terrible.

They're cultists with views that can't stand up to scrutiny, so they need use other tactics to spread their shit and gain power. They use the real downsides and weaknesses of democracy to argue we need an even worse system. Then they argue you actually hold the worst views of their enemies, even though they usually support exactly the same things that make those enemies bad. Tankies claim you're a free-market liberal for opposing them, when the countries they support are state capitalists. Fascists claim you're against freedom of speech, while they are always trying to ban ideas they hate. Some of them are misguided and believe their own lies, but others are just awful people.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (14 children)

Tankies traditionally are associated with communists, but today's tankies (even those that call themselves communists) are really after authoritarianism than communism, and given the history of the name (that they supported using tracks on civilians). I don't think they're is much difference between current communists and current fascists, both groups seem to support authoritarianism and feels like term "tankies" fits both of them well.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I hate it when threads like this make me have to repeatedly post the mainstream Jewish holocaust historian "stop conflating fascism and communism" article

https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

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[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yes, when it comes to the axis from authoritarian to anarchist. Things all tend to narrow in to a single point at either end. In regards to authoritarians, it's all about the hierarchy and holding power for themselves. They don't give a shit what form of government sits under that. When it comes to anarchists and libertarians, no government other than a largely flat form of socialism is acceptable. Simply because they are focused on freedoms both individual and social. And large monolithic hierarchies tend to get in the way of that.

And when I use the term libertarian I of course mean actual libertarians. Not temporarily embarrassed Republicans, or teenage capitalists. The easiest test to find out whether someone might accidentally be a libertarian or not. Is to find out if they belong to the Libertarian party, or ever plan to vote for their candidates. No one who would ever do that could ever be a libertarian lol

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

those "libertarians" are just anarcho-capitalists who think the issue isn't the system itself but they couldn't get access to the pie soon enough and get a bigger piece than everyone else so they think we should do a reset do this time they can come out on top

it's enough to look at how Crypto works with it's deflationary system where first buyers are much stronger than late comers or the MOAS /ape crowd

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Absolutely. Though even calling them in Arco capitalist is still to generous and a blight to the term anarchist. (I've met a few anarchists that were too idealistic and unreasonable for their own good. But they are generally pretty chill, reasonable people otherwise.) They are no true libertarians. Actual libertarians push not just for freedom from things like government. But also the freedom for everyone in society to be able to do the things they desire. One without the other is not a libertarian.

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Wait but I'm a communist. As in communes first, no state, no hierarchy, collective ownership, and all that jazz. I'm not super well read on the theory. Its really easy to see the difference, we're not splitting hairs here.

[–] Val@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

That is why I use anarchist instead. It means all of that while also making it clear that authoritarianism is not ok.

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[–] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Cockmaster6000@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The guy needs a speech bubble that says "Stalin did nothing wr-"

[–] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean when people give Stalin shit yet don't bat an eye at what Lenin did, I can safely assume they're going off cold war propaganda.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

Lenin had some legitimately good takes, e.g. that Stalin should, under no circumstance, ever be allowed to come to power. His analysis was also usually spot-on, but his solutions to things either hare-brained or naive, leading to, well, history. Or, put differently, on a scale from tragic hero to villain he's at least in the middle while Stalin is a straight-up villain.

[–] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Hey everyone, just a reminder:

  • Yes Nazis are also bad, we don't have Nazis pop up anywhere near as often as Tankies
  • We remove and ban Nazis too
  • We're aware of Lemmy's main code writers being ML's, and it's not great.
  • Please report any bigot bullshit, or fascist/tankie dogwhistles.
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[–] Vespair@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

I think most of you need to worry way less about sounding sufficiently the "right kind" of leftist and focus more on promoting leftism through action. More than half the "tankie" discourse is, at best, a needless distraction from actual progress. Lose your buzzwords and stop the ideological purity pissing contest and actually put in the work in your communities instead, goddamn.

[–] prototype_g2@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

Define tankie. I've seen that work be used in so many different contexts that it seems to have lost all meaning. This are word has been used to describe so many different things by people that don't know what it means that now it has lost all meaning.

Similar case for the word "Authoritarian"Same story goes for the word "authoritarian". I've seen that word being defined as "When government uses it's authority to stop you from doing something", but by that logic any society with laws and law enforcement is authoritarian. This are word has been used to describe so many different things by people that don't know what it means that now it has lost all meaning.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm not against the hostility being shown towards tankies here... but it should be remembered that there are a lot of well-meaning and well-intentioned people who get caught up in the technocratic ideology tankies buy into. Let's face it... if you google anything about leftism you are more likely to end up reading about Marx and Engels than Bakunin or Goldman - and right-wing propaganda is as perfectly fine with conflating everything "leftist" with the technocratic (ie authoritarian) left as tankies themselves are.

If we are leaving some doors open for fascists and capitalists who turn against their programming, we should remember to do the same for tankies.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

As someone who's read Marx and lenin, and Bakunin and Goldman... not to mention kroptikin(god damn that guy bullshat his way through conquest of bread)

The anarchists always decry practical steps that are needed for the transition, but they have a poverty of ideas when it comes to propose better alternative solutions to the problems faced by actual revolutions. And frankly, reading their literature I understand why. They're still hung up on ideas and values and not material analysis much more than MLs. They're still trapped within liberal hegemonic thought though they are against liberal capitalism.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Neither the anarchist revolutions in Ukraine nor Spain seemed to lack "practical steps"... what they did lack, however, was practical steps for turning into a reactionary elite as soon as they seized power - something the Bolsheviks and their ideological spawn seems to have no problems with.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

They absolutely did, their inability to coordinate and make compromises during wartime absolutely led to their failures as revolutions.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (9 children)

Oh... being (respectively) stabbed in the back by Bolsheviks and being sabotaged by Stalin had absolutely nothing to do with it, eh?

No, tankie... I don't think you've read any anarchist literature at all.

[–] doidera@lemmy.eco.br 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No, tankie… I don’t think you’ve read any anarchist literature at all.

so now we are gonna start calling names. Cool, very mature.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Well, then... what do you think we should call them? Do remember... it was Marxist-Leninists themselves that came up with that term.

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[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

196 is one of the greatest ~~subs~~ communities

ya'll should be proud. Thank you for adding a little queer fun to my normal CIS life

[–] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 years ago

Based AF

Fuck tankies

[–] frontporchtreat@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I swear almost every American election cycle, some weird word will start popping up everywhere. like how all the trump supporters started saying cuck out of nowhere in 2015-2016

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