Ask Lemmy

… they asked, online.

Everyone's expectation of what others need to be to be acceptable socially has skyrocketed while their expectations of what they themselves need to deliver has bottomed out. In dating women only want perfect looking and acting males of higher status and higher income (so much for income inequality) who bring in the majority of the income while also doing at least 50% of the housework. Men expect barbies that never age and also somehow do all the housework and bring in half the salary while on call for sex or gaming 24/7. Friends have to have the exact same income so that they can't outspend you or become freeloaders while being constantly interesting and available while you can't be expected to RSVP or even show up if it doesn't suit you in that moment. There isn't any common ground because no one should have to settle for less than their every desire, whim, expectation. No one is allowed to expect that much of them and must be willing to take them at their worst. Friends & partners must always do the right thing and never, ever make a mistake.
Somewhere along the line, social media meant people stopped treating each other as humans and instead as a commodity to use to get what they want. Then they look to said social media (exaggeration and all, mine included) to find the answers and find outrage instead.

This was briefly touched upon during the Nexus conference, which I was reading about in an article just before browsing Lemmy and coming across this post. Although it offers no answers, it seems relevant as it might deepen the understanding of the problem:

The people financing the AI revolution were already responsible for the expansion of social media, which ruins many lives, says Leahy. Permanent online surveillance via social media makes young people afraid to even dance at concerts, says the 30-year-old software developer. The algorithms of dating apps have also turned the dating scene into a messed-up place. None of his friends have children, and everywhere he looks, he sees “dejected” peers. “My generation realizes that the promise of ‘let technology run free and everything will be fine’ is not true.”

The original article was in another language, no other paragraphs were relevant, so source has been omitted. Feel free to ask though, I'll share (a translation of) the article.

Is it? It gets harder as time passes for each person. Friends become fewer, more busy, and farther apart. It may be that it is objectively harder now. What do I know as an old man? But it feels hard for everybody as they age individually. I have no close homies that I talk to regularly. 30 years ago, I had many.

I'm sure there's loads of reasons. But something that I notice is even with my good close friends (made in the before-times) it's sometimes hard to find conversations that are "fun". Politics has always been depressing, but while Bush era war on terror felt like an outlier, the current shit show feels like somewhat inevitable deathspiral. And it isn't just a horrible time we need to survive together, until we get back to normal, instead it feels like we started to see how even the "better times" of our history were problematic.

Similarly, or perhaps because of, this gloomy realism in politics, I find it hard to be very exicted about other cultural products. We used to be excited for new tech or new tv, but not only is most modern tech underwhelming, if not outright horrifying, but it also makes me feel like I was dumb to have supported the rise of the Internet and move to an online society, since that seems to just be heading towards dystopia.

So, I think we're at a (hopefully brief) nadir, where things have been bad and they're getting worse, which kinda makes it hard to be hopeful or excited about the future. And we also can't be nostalgic about the past because we see how many terrible things were happening in the background back then.

I'm actually doing OK compared to most people, and am a pretty optimistic person, but this societal pessimism makes it hard to be genuinely excited about stuff, even with friends. Even something as innocent as discussing the weather - is a sunny November a blessed long summer, or a harbinger of climate catastrophe? It's exhausting and it's easier to just escape into rewatches and computer games.

I don't have time for it. I live so far from my friends that it takes me an hour+ if I want to hang out.

My house is always dirty, I don't have the will to clean.

People are more anxious and have less common friends (low clustering coefficient).

Social media and its consequences.

Y'all can come hang at my house. I've got snacks.

It seems to me that dinner and cocktail parties have really fallen out of favor. It makes since to me though. Both my spouse and I work, so neither of us can do the prep work to get our home ready and a meal ready in time to have guests. Hosting norms would also have me pay for the food or drinks which fine once in a blue moon, but not something I could do frequently. I'm one of my few friends with a space that would even make sense to host in, so I'd pretty much be the only one hosting, so the only one spending money. It quickly becomes something I don't want to do.

There's also a reduction in affordable third spaces. I get third spaces needing to make money, but it's so expensive to go out with friends and just hang out.

Money squeeze, destruction of third spaces , rapant misogyny and racism and so many more reasons.

@TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world @asklemmy@lemmy.world

In parts, the answer to your question lies in the very title of your thread or, to be precise, the latest word from it: 2020s.

Something happened in 2020. And this thing, for good and bad, required people to distance themselves. And those who were stubbornly unconvinced of the reasons why people should keep social distancing, were faced by the harsh reality sooner or later. We saw people falling dead like flies. We saw how the whole world was facing the exact same struggle, we saw the burnout of their health systems as doctors, nurses and other health professionals were dying in numbers like never before.

Then the pandemic forced the world to go full digital. To a certain extent, it was really great: we could be finally free from metropolitan pollution, as we could work from anywhere (including rural towns, far from the large cities), we could work while petting our cats at home, we could work without needing to get stressed by human modes of transportation.

But this digitalization is what provided enough crude material for a dystopian dungeon to be slowly build around us. Shortly after COVID, we saw things like ChatGPT popping up into existence out of nowhere. And what follows is contemporary and needs no introduction. Of course there's much more, but my reply is already big.

The fact is: people became (understandably) traumatized, like, for ever. Meanwhile, people became used to a fully digital life, with every aspect of their lives being an app (LaaS, Life-as-a-Service). People were never the same, the world got worse. "Third places" started to wane because Internet supposedly have all places humans need. Then capitalism, now technofeudalism, thrived to further enslave society.

To me, a Zennial (someone born in the cusp between Millennials and Gen Z), the COVID-19 is something that left a permanent wound, not just biological or physical (e.g. long COVID syndrome), but psychological, economical, social: all aspects of my existence were affected.

Before it happened, my social life was blooming, I was enrolled in college again to try and complete my degree I gave up a few years earlier. I was living plain adulthood, independent and far from my parents while living with nice stranger people in a hostel. I was well employed with not-so-bad paycheck and a quite steady IT career... Then COVID came and simply shattered it all. Not just my life goals, not just my academic or professional career, everything! And tech, which I used to love (hence my DevOps career), suddenly started becoming the dystopia I described earlier.

Eventually, COVID made me realize of the impermanence of this pointless existence, pushing me towards nihilism, until I simply gave up trying to deceive myself with mundane illusions. My attempts to seek friends, love, family and career are long gone: it's all pointless.

I'm just biologically surviving against the will at this point... Billions of humans are, too.

I think it's a combination of many things from social media, to the lackluster economy.

In many ways technology has made us less human and less tolerable of other people. We are becoming like the humans from Wall-E where they are content to eat and watch slop all day, even losing the ability to walk and think because the machines can do it for them. We are becoming mean, self absorbed blobs!

All this technology has made our lives so frictionless and easy. Everything can be done with our phones that in many people's minds humans are "obsolete". Which I disagree with, but I'm not better too. I struggle with making friends and maintaining connections, it's so hard but it's something I would want to change as well. I guess it's just a sign of the times, and zoomers, hell other generations too need to try our hardest to connect with our fellow humans.

I was on sub stack and some put it perfectly: " We must resist the pull of the machine." And that's the struggle being human today and why making human connection is so hard. Our machines are so designed to be so alluring that we must fight against it to stay human.

Gen Z doesn't respond to phone calls or texts.

Source: My Gen Z neices.

Lack of money is certainly a chilling factor. Went bowling the other week, and it cost like $30/person. That's pretty cheap, but not if you're dead broke. Went out for brunch and a short bar crawl this weekend, and they cost like $50/ea for food and a few drinks. Not that expensive, but also kind of a lot.

You can socialize for cheaper. Had a little get together the other week- I spent like $40 for pizza and snacks, but could've probably gone cheaper. The real limiting factor is getting people who will show up.

I imagine it's hard to bootstrap that, if you have no friends or only sad-sit-home-alone friends.

No money to do anything is my main reason.

And then there's the feeling that it's less evil to not participate in American culture. American culture doesn't feel genuine to me and when I find myself in it I feel like I'm losing myself like the decline of a meth user. Participating in American culture makes me feel like a bad human being.

Hmm, happy to say that I can’t relate.

I’ve always been on the introverted side and with a few social activities per week I’m pretty much maxed out all the time.

Mostly do walk and talk out in the city, maybe stopping somewhere to enjoy a coffee on the terrace. Still making new friends, but now more through kid and dog, rather than school. Keeping in touch and even rekindling some older friendships. There are also a few former colleagues I will meet up with from time to time and additionally my wife’s friends.

Now, in my mid thirties, I’ve even started with a small tabletop gaming gang.

Haven’t been active on social media for nearly 15 years…

I dont' use social media so I'm pretty ignorant of it all.

She says on social media.

Seriously, though, you got half of it already: Social media addiction.

The other half is reluctance to be social media content. Relationships and intimacy require vulnerability and opening the dark cave of your heart puts you at risk for the contents thereof to become a story someone else tells online.

It's harder to connect over things on social media, because there's no substance to them. Combine that with higher cost of living (meaning people don't have disposable income), and you have yourself a loneliness epidemic.

Even as a millenial, my main time for socializing is getting on Discord to play games with a few buddies once per week. Work and family obligations take up the majority of my time.

Join your town's local discord server. If it has two, one is the shit one. If it doesn't have one, start it. I started a city discord that grew to over 600 members in two years. Is important to delegate as you grow and encourage all members to try organizing and leading events if they like, at least trying once.

If you can't host, you'll need to recruit at least one person that can before the ball gets rolling.

If you like discussing books and films, which are some of my favorite things, movie nights are great easy get togethers and if you don't have a member with a big living room and TV you can all go to the cinema together (but that's expensive).

A book club can even be done in a voice channel.

If your town has a boardgame cafe, that's really good to take prospective friend groups.

If you don't have that option, look for community organizations with a building, such as a progressive church. Unfortunately that will put some members off events, especially members of many minority groups.

Hiking is free and doesn't require securing a venue.

You can gain a lot of real (not nebulous internet) community, friends, gratitude, and (to put it bluntly) clout.

During the summer y'all can hang out in parks.

Everything is too expensive. People simply can't afford to do things anymore.

It's easy when you're a kid or a student.

It's harder after.

I think a step back is the answer. I’m old. I love tech. But I grew up without it which does have advantages, like being comfortable visiting someone’s domicile and vice versa.

Substack seems popular, and it’s quite a throwback. It’s like blogs of the early Internet and lovely long form design alongside current media. And it works. Bringing back good elements we’ve forgotten. Steps back can be good.

Meetup was also a thing back in the day, and in some cities, it worked. Artists in some locales would get together for drawing, including figure drawing. Safely. Outdoor movie nights. Probably the best use of the top floor of a parking garage that I’ve ever seen. And tabletop D&D. That was 20 yrs ago. Substack brought back a new/improved form of blogging though so why not this too?

All these young people doubting the authenticity of Stranger Things. We can’t roll back helicopter mommies but we can start engaging in tabletop more.

RISK night can also be good. Highly recommend RISK 2210. 5 turns each and it takes 3 hours. It’s wonderful.

Board games or tabletop are good because they’re easier, socially. You don’t have to be hyper focused on the interpersonal, you have a task to do, a reason to be there. It reduces that other anxiety in a natural way. And it’s not expensive, like food venues or bars.

If you’re clueless on tabletop, watch a HarmonQuest or two. The fun side is dressed up with animation, but you’ll get the idea on how the story progression can work.