this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2025
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[–] CannonFodder@lemmy.world 141 points 1 month ago (20 children)

Both things can be true.
One step at a time.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 87 points 1 month ago (50 children)

Yeah, splitting up isn't a great thing right now. Let's team up together and fight the nazis.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 49 points 1 month ago

It's almost like some people here desperately want to create division in the left.

Glad to see it backfiring on one post.

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

damn right. in the US, performing labor is seen as more important than human life. that tells you a lot.

[–] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

And most of them defend it.

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[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It is a super weird and self contradictory thing. Because yeah, the notion is that labor’s important because labor is how anything gets done, and without things getting done, how does anyone get to live a life at all? Entropy is real after all. So people who would do no labor yet get support from the rest of society are seen as execrable parasites.

And yet… the big goal is to become wealthy so that you can live on the labor of others. The whole enterprise of business is about playing the system so that you can get more for less personal labor. And the highest form of this is to work not at all yet receive even more than mere support: total indulgence.

So how are people at once shat upon for doing no labor but wanting basic support, while others are idealized for doing no labor but wanting total indulgence?

[–] frostedtrailblazer@lemmy.zip 29 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I feel like you hear the top line because those specific liberals are trying to convince independents, moderates, conservatives, and people on the right to agree on at least something. Many of the people they’re trying to convince would give a big “NO” if they didn’t include that 40 hours part.

The fact that there isn’t even a “YES” with the 40 hours part caveat is the bad sign.

I don’t think most of the people labeled as liberals would disagree with what the people labeled leftist are saying, but their trying to convince the other people that aren’t even bought in to the first step.

This is also an issue where the people that don’t want to help others have over 50% of the power in the US federal government currently.

Our energy should be focused on bringing these progressive help options to everyone at the state level right now to have the greatest chance of getting these programs implemented.

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[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

More and more I'm convinced most Americans have no idea what a liberal, leftist, or other terms actually are. They're just parroting the words they hear from their feeds.

'Liberal' is the funniest because both red and blue accuse each other of being them. My guess is blues think liberalism is laissez-faire and the reds think it's woke social freedoms. They're both slightly on the right track, but not at all.

And in the rest of the free world...

Liberals: No one should live in poverty regardless of their ability to perform labour.

Leftists: Yoooo, 40 hrs is fucked. What is this, the 1300s?

Liberals: Actually, yeah that is kind of fucked. An employer shouldn't be ble to encroach on an employee's life that much. This is an imbalance of liberties.

Leftist: Great! So what are we going to do bout it?

Liberals: Fuck all. We can't be sure employees don't want this too. Besides, someone will sort it out soon, they always do.

Leftists: I'll donate a union $5 so I can tell my friend I'm left.

And in the next five years, some prolific young gun politician swoops in the 35 hour work week. But due to cultural reasons, everyone keeps working 40 hours and gets plenty of overtime for it. This having the employer pay more and the employee see little benefit because the state haven't adjusted their now dated tax brackets. But along with very good minimum wage standards and an unemployment rate < 5%, both the leftist and the liberal never found the true source of the poverty and so continued using foreign corporations and large franchise to fulfill almost all of their needs. And everyone but their local infrastructures and communities lived happily ever after until the next global recession hit. The leftist and liberal "really meant it this time" when they said they'd support local and try to live more independently, but the inconvenience of it meant they silently did not.

[–] Glide@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Liberals: Fuck all. We can't be sure employees don't want this too. Besides, someone will sort it out soon, they always do.

Leftists: I'll donate a union $5 so I can tell my friends I'm left.

The most real understanding of our political world tbh.

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[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 1 month ago

Liberals: We should compromise with the fascists and blame trans people for our incompetence

Leftists: DOWN WITH FASCISM AND DOWN WITH BIGOTRY

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (14 children)

This misses the point. The point is no one, especially someone who has given back to society by preforming labor, should be left out in the cold.

[–] TomArrr@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think the point is nobody should live in poverty. Fullstop. Addendum to that, workers should be paid a fair day's wage for a fair day's work. But the first sentence is the core of everything.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 7 points 1 month ago (3 children)

They don't agree with that, they think that if you have a job you are more worthy of being allowed to live.

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[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 14 points 1 month ago (20 children)

You missed their point.

No one, not only workers.

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[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

someone who has given back to society by preforming labor

These are two things that are often lumped together but don't really have anything to do with one another.

You can be employed and give absolutely nothing back to society (tbh, probably the majority office workers are in that category). You can even be employed and take from society (looking at you, people working in e.g. the tobacco industry).

And you can be unemployed and massively give back to society. Just look at the people who do voluntary work or at the millions of moms and dads who are raising the next generation that will keep society running, all completely without compensation.

I spend all day sitting in front of a PC so that numbers on the screen of some investor go up. That's not giving back to society.

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[–] just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Consider an example of a women, who does not work but raises childern and perform other chores to support her husband.

She is quite important in contribution to the society, but when we talk just about working people, we overlook her.

And I am sure there are many such people who are critical for the function of the society, but do not "make money" (i,e wage labor nor even owning capital for that matter)

This is why, IMO, this distinction of "people who work" is counter productive. Everyone should be able to live without poverty.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

Liberals watching fascism evolve in real time: "Fuck your guns! Give them over!"

Leftists: "Uh, hell no, are you crazy?"

Liberals: "You'll get KILLED!"

Leftists: "Yeah, that's going to be the outcome whether you fight or not."

Liberals: "Where my 2A people at?!" (got a burn in there. tee hee hee)

Me: "I have loads of guns, practice best I know how, several times a week. Tell me what you would have me do."

Liberals: <FUCKING SILENCE>

Never heard a single word, not one reply to that question. Here's your chance to shine!

I haven't seen masked men in my town. None have come for my brown, legal, immigrant wife. As of this year, I am not outdoors unarmed. Indoors? You can't catch me shitting without a firearm in reach. Insane? Abso-fucking-lutly insane. No one should live like that. But this is where we're at in America.

Want to hear something nuts? I was just now showing my wife that I can buy all the gear these fascists are wearing on Amazon.com. Yes, POLICE patches, all of it.

So, to sum, they've demonstrated that they'll kill me. They've demonstrated that anyone can look like them. You go figure out how to take that information.

Ban for "inciting violence" in 3, 2...

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is a bit like responding "All lives matter" when hearing about Black Lives Matter.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's more like "End Slavery" not "End Debt Bondage".

One is clearly more serious than the other and it's not the 40 hr workers.

I'm sure you can get into the anti-confederate nature of that.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Ask the top to apply their thinking to retirement. That might make them think a little deeper.

[–] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"Oh it's different, we'll have earned our welfare" - Liberals

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