this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2025
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Bread

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what is actually happening when dough stops rising and begins to settle? (lemmy.sdf.org)
submitted 2 months ago by ThorrJo@lemmy.sdf.org to c/bread@lemmy.ca
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Within the last year I learned to bake bread, and have been experimenting with various types of breads made with instant dry yeast.

This includes "sandwich bread" with a relatively fast rise. The sequence of events looks like mix flour, autolyse, add yeast + sugar source + salt + seeds, knead, brief rest, shape, put in the pan to rise, bake. Lots of yeast, 6 to 9 grams for one loaf in a 9x5 inch (23x13cm) rectangular pan. So the rise time is quick, which for me when making a loaf like this is a feature, not a bug.

Anyway I have been experimenting with a recipe which uses >50% whole-wheat flour, and trying to optimize the rise. I don't mind dense bread but I would like it as fluffy as I can get with that much whole grain flour.

I have been having a lot of problems getting the loaves to rise beyond a certain point. They rise pretty fast, then slow down, stop, and start to collapse back if I don't put them in the oven at the point they've stopped rising.

Is this because a recipe with such a quick rise actually requires sugar and the yeast is running out of it? The recipe I'm tinkering with includes blackstrap molasses. I want to minimize added sugars, but perhaps I need a bit more molasses? And what is happening to the gas bubbles when dough starts to settle like this, is the gas diffusing out or being absorbed into the water within the dough or what?

I added an autolyse step (mix flour & water, let rest 30 min) before adding the rest of the ingredients & kneading, and it made a very small difference if any.

The ingredients:

Wet

  • 350g warm water
  • 30g blackstrap molasses dissolved in 60g water

Dry

  • 300g whole wheat flour
  • 240g white all-purpose flour
  • 45g flax meal
  • 35g raw sunflower kernels
  • 35g hulled hemp seeds
  • 9g salt
  • up to 9g yeast depending on kitchen temp
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[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Some points that come to mind

So the result is it’s easy to over proof whole wheat and it’s not exactly puffy to begin with. Over proofing happens when the gluten reaches its limit and the yeast run out of food. Typically there’s a bulk fermentation to grow the yeast colony and then the gluten network is reformed and the yeast is jiggled around as the loaf is shaped, permitting the second fermentation before baking.

Sugar is a pretty common ingredient for sandwich bread because it aids in browning especially when toasting it. The yeast doesn’t consume it all - but it gets pretty far. That and fats are what make a fluffy sandwich loaf - but you’re far from that with this recipe. I don’t think you really need the molasses. Particularly because it’s going to make for a faster fermentation and the gluten is already struggling to hold in the air.

[–] ThorrJo@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 months ago

I did not know about the faster rise with whole wheat. And, hmm, my other sandwich bread which rises higher has some oil in it along with less whole wheat flour. I know that oil can coat the gluten and prevent it from cross linking to some extent. So many variables! I will just have to keep experimenting.

[–] BlueLineBae@midwest.social 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As far as I understand it, the amount of yeast you put in has a maximum amount of gas it will produce before it can't produce any more. The goal is to get it to produce enough to shape the bread how you like while it's in the oven so the cooking process will kill the yeast and stop this process. Getting the timing right is essential of course which is why we typically have 2 proofs. But other things also affect the process, sugar being one of them. But sugar doesn't make the yeast produce more, it just makes the process happen faster which it sounds like your process is already fast. So you are correct that adding more sugar will help to get the bread to rise faster to the shape you need before putting it in the oven, but it sounds more to me like there is a different issue. Other factors that can effect the rise include things that inhibit or kill yeast, such as salt, hot water, or high altitude. Or even the weight and density of the dough can inhibit the bread to rise properly. I make a hybrid sandwich bread weekly with half bread flour and half whole wheat, and I typically need to add vital wheat gluten because the loaf is made fast and there isn't enough time for enough gluten to develop to make it soft and pliable. I wonder if you have the same issue and your bread is simply too dense? Maybe try it out and see what happens. I add 3 TBS to a single loaf usually. Hope you can figure it out. Bread sure it tricky.

[–] ThorrJo@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thanks! I didn't mention in the post but I have experimented with adding gluten, it definitely makes the dough stronger and less likely to settle back, but doesn't seem to let it rise much higher.

[–] BlueLineBae@midwest.social 2 points 2 months ago

If you're already adding a lot of yeast and gluten isnt helping, then it may be something inhibiting the yeast or the yeast could be old. The amount of yeast you're putting in should definitely be enough.