this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2024
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It's a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.

Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.

It's no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it's those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.

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[–] naeap@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Microsoft has built a number of safety features into Windows Recall to ensure that the service can't run secretly in the background. When Windows Recall is enabled, it places a permanent visual indicator icon on the Taskbar to let the user know that Windows Recall is capturing data. This icon cannot be hidden or moved.

Oh my, that one is really cute

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Just think they might go from owning 98% of the market to 97% of the market. I am sure this is a nightmare for them.

[–] mypasswordis1234@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

TL;DR:

  • Windows Recall, part of Microsoft's new Copilot+ PC initiative, has sparked major privacy and security concerns.
  • The feature uses AI to capture and store screen data locally, allowing users to search for past activities using natural language.
  • Despite assurances that data is not uploaded to the cloud or used by Microsoft, user trust is lacking.
  • Microsoft has a history of practices that have eroded user trust, including obtrusive ads, ignoring user preferences, and requiring Microsoft Accounts.
  • Users are skeptical, fearing future misuse of the collected data for advertising or AI training.
  • Windows Recall reportedly stores data unencrypted, making it vulnerable to access by third-party apps and potential malware.
  • The open nature of Windows amplifies these risks, unlike more secure systems like iOS and Android.
  • Users have compared Windows Recall to spyware, with many threatening to switch to other operating systems like Linux or Mac.
  • Microsoft's attempts to keep the development of Windows Recall secret did not help build trust.
  • Windows Recall will only be available on new Copilot+ PCs, requiring specific hardware not present in existing PCs.
  • Users will have the option to disable the feature, but there are concerns about it being enabled by default.
  • Despite security issues, the feature is effective in helping users find lost or forgotten data.
  • It could improve productivity if trust and security concerns are resolved.
[–] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is status quo for every large corporation. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM, Roku.... They all, ALL, push boundaries to see what they can get away with to not only sell you something, but also make you the thing they sell. Sometimes they're bold enough to make it public what they're doing, sometimes, it's a leak that happens when people find out how little the company actually cares about it's users (Apple, so many user data leaks).

[–] Shelbyeileen@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My bigger concern is that almost every company now has it in their contracts/terms of services, that all users are not allowed to participate in a lawsuit, be it class action, or court case against them Most of them even have a maximum sue limit too! There's a lot that have a rule that initial arbitration cannot have a lawyer, but that won't be enforced.

[–] Aecosthedark@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Is that a valid and enforceable clause though, even if i clicked "i agree"?

[–] AWittyUsername@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.

Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.

That was a mess.

[–] ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have any links? Not that I don't believe you, I just can't find anything on it and it seems very entertaining

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I do have a Twitter account but for the life of me I can't remember what the password is so I can't actually see the responses, since apparently you need to sign in to see responses now, but if you do have Twitter you can see the responses here's the link. https://x.com/jensimmons/status/1491064075987873792

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Some nitter instances might work. This one did. Not a shitshow at all, especially as she didn't say that "bug reports aren't constructive feedback"

Everyone in my mentions saying Safari is the worst, it’s the new IE… Can you point to specific bugs & missing support that frustrate you, inhibit you making websites/apps. Bonus points for links to tickets. Specifics we can fix. Vague hate is honestly super counterproductive."

There's plenty of bug reports in there and she's behaving how I'd expect a developer to: by asking further questions and version use for stuff that should be fixed. Didn't see any point where she lost her temper in any way

https://xcancel.com/jensimmons/status/1491064075987873792

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Don't forget the fact they're locked onto luxury hardware, and you can't build your own flavor for it. Even worse is, notebook manufacturers copied them so much there's less variations among them. I was looking for some "subnotebook" as a potential portable PC, but I had like a few options (many of which would have included AliExpress junk), but there's an endless supply of same-looking 14-16" ones, that are thin ("real" portability according to techbros), lightweight, "desktop replacements", and run at a constant 95°C.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, the main takeaway here is "Apple Bad"

The main takeaway of this article about Microsoft's horrible decisions is "Apple bad"? OS flame wars really haven't gotten less ridiculous in the past decades...

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You know what would be a nice thing to put into windows?

A fucking decent way to search for files.

Also, grep and tail, as implemented in Linux. It's 2024 and there's no native equivalent to tail -f *.log. How embarrassing.

[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You can do a commandline "dir /s *.log" to search an entire directory it works better than the normal file search generally. Unless I misunderstand what you're asking.

[–] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

-f follows the file so you can see updates as they come in to the bottom of the file. I wasn't aware this worked with globs, but that's neat.

Is that what /s does? I haven't used Windows in years.

[–] retrospectology@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Oh, perhaps not. I may've just understood how you're using the search. /s is just a straight search if the directory, I don't know that it can be used to generate dynamic results like that. Go figure.

[–] dmtalon@infosec.pub 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ya, a PR nightmare for the next 15 minutes until the next unbelievable thing comes along and the ADD nature of people forgets windows is watching everything they do.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's usually what I think too, but after watching how Twitter's gone to shit since the two big user departures, I think this could legitimately affect Microsoft's bottom line.

[–] Voytrekk@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That will rely on businesses moving away from Windows. That is where they make a ton of their money with Enterprise licenses and Office 365 subscriptions.

[–] Infynis@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And businesses don't give a shit about their employees' privacy

[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 1 points 3 months ago

We do however care very deeply about IP and other sensitive data - in my field (digital cinema), microsoft have literally fucked themselves out of any company that wants a TPN certification

[–] PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I figured on my gaming and VR rig that I’d begrudgingly upgrade it to W11 when W10 stopped receiving security updates and support but at this point the recall feature (which will be used to train LLMs regardless of what Microsoft promises or guarantees) has ensured that I never install that kind of spyware as an operating system.

I’d rather spend forever troubleshooting and getting my Valve Index to work with Ubuntu than deal with a giant backdoor.

[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

better get W10 LTSC in VM and use it until EOL and beyond, it'll be more privacy friendly this way

[–] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Using an internet connected OS past EOL is definitely not privacy friendly.

[–] KrapKake@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He said until EOL. Windows LTSC, the IoT version in particular is supported until 2032.

[–] RobotZap10000@feddit.nl 1 points 1 year ago

2032 will be the year of the Linux desktop!

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And yet again, install Linux. Leave Microsoft behind

[–] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You mean like Ubuntu , who put adds in as well.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

As a decades long Ubuntu I can tell you that it contains no ads

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't want to be the guy that always says Linux, but... ...Linux

[–] I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah but there's like 20 of them, and many are half-baked. How is a n00b to choose one?

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ubuntu is fine for all uses, and so are some of the others

[–] I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not sure about that. They try to get you to sign up for services, and they deliberately broke something with installing from certain file types.

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's still perfectly functional and easy to use, just say no if they ask you to sign up to a service, if you come from windows you'll ve surprised of how easy it is to dismiss those offers

[–] spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's also important to remember that Microsoft has no monetary incentive to force people to use Windows Recall.

With that in mind, there would be no reason for Microsoft to automatically enable Windows Recall in an update down the line. If it does happen, the user will be able to instantly tell thanks to that that visual indicator and turn it off again.

This article is nothing but propaganda. There is huge monetary incentive to force people to use Windows Recall and collect their data, and Microsoft routinely uses Windows Update to enable data collection. They began that practice years ago on Windows 7. It's a ridiculously simple matter for MS to disable the visual indicator and force This Week's Plan on their users to monetize their data.

Windows Central pretends to be critical of plans to enable a feature that can be made into malware by Microsoft in a couple of minutes, but then back peddles and says it can't be done (utter BS) and if it could be, it wouldn't be that bad.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Even if the database remains local only forever, which I don't believe for a second, the computer will eventually make hyperspecific requests for ads based on the spying.

[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean 95% of their customers probably don't care or even know what Recall is but...

[–] skulblaka@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago

95% of their customers are businesses, who no, they don't understand that. But their IT department does.

[–] lazynooblet@lazysoci.al -1 points 1 year ago

Yeah this. Fed up with sensationalist headlines that are far from reality. Us Lemmy users have a better understanding of what's going on but we shouldn't be falling for this journalism as it's nonsense.