this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 5 points 1 hour ago

Sure you can.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

If this is true, the EU better be figuring out how to change that price calculus for them. Which makes me doubt an open admission actually did happen, since China would understand the possibility for blowback.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 17 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

I used to joke that China wants to trade Ukraine for Taiwan, now it is very clear: you shut up about helping/recognizing/arming Taiwan and we keep a leash on russia...until next time...

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Taiwan for Ukraine would actually be a trade worth considering for Europe. The major problem, besides values like freedom and democracy, international law, is the interruption of supply lines from Taiwan caused by a Chinese takeover.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Exactly, Taiwan made sure it was worth defending, but I fear that this will lose value over time. Besides you never know what stupid shit is going to come out of tramp's brain the day anything escalates.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Trump like the military because he does like everything powerful and strong. I think he truly is opposed to long and costly wars. So far his actions track that pretty well.

Trump is looking for deals to enrich himself or become more famous and powerful.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

...so was putin (who is smarter than him), it was supposed to be a 2-week SMO in the Donbas. But the problem with these megalomaniac gamblers is that it is easy for them to miscalculate, because they think war is easy, quick, simple and they think that their opponents are no match.

[–] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 11 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 5 points 11 hours ago

True, they can demand Haishenwai and Outer Manchuria all the way to and including lake Baikal to help russia keep what it has stolen from Ukraine. Or else...geh fuck yourselves.

[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 41 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

It still baffles me how people manage to justify China's position on Russia. Sure it's "geopolitics" but if you take a look at domestic propaganda in China itself it's certainly much more than that.

Check out videos of what Ukrainians deal with while living in China - its down right disgusting how brainwashed Chinese are equating Zelenskyy to the likes of Hitler in Ukrainian's faces and thsse are just normal people in apolitical contexts like nurses in hospitals. It's absolute insanity.

[–] AstaKask@lemmy.cafe 16 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

That's just Chinese people in general on any subject. Anyone who's actually been to that country would notice pretty quickly that things are NOT OK. The Chinese population has never not known abuse and it shows.

[–] jimjam5@lemmy.world 1 points 21 minutes ago

I lived and worked in China for a year (Shenzhen). There was a palpable sense of brainwashing and/or an overpowering air of unhealthy patriotism there. Which made it stranger for me as I had Chinese friends and coworkers that seemed like decent normal people, we went to bars and drank and joked together. But whenever the topic of China as a country and its policies came up, everyone had a similar change in attitude and unwavering loyalty to the government.

I never felt that I was being targeted specifically, but I also never felt truly comfortable for a number of reasons. I’m glad I got to expand my horizons and experience a bit of what the country/city had to offer, I don’t think I would willingly go to live there again.

[–] lupusblackfur@lemmy.world 141 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

"Because that would be totally devastating to our plans for Taiwan."

💩

[–] plyth@feddit.org 0 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

They don't have those plans. That's insinuated to distract from what the minister actually said and implied.

I have poined this out in the other post: https://feddit.org/post/15221478

This article is slightly misleading if compared with the SCMP article which has big implications on understanding the global power dynamics. Draw your own conclusions.

SCMP:

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat on Wednesday that Beijing does not want to see a Russian loss in Ukraine because it fears the United States would then shift its whole focus to Beijing, according to several people familiar with the exchange.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say

https://web.archive.org/web/20250704053134/https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say

vs

As the war in Ukraine drags on, Wang’s reported comments suggest that Russia’s war in Ukraine may serve China’s strategic needs as focus is deviated away from Beijing’s mounting preparation to launch its own possible invasion into Taiwan.

It's subtle, but the attack on Taiwan is an interpretation. The minister means something else.

If the economic development continues, Taiwan will want to join China. Thus the focus of the US is interpreted differently by China, more like the focus Iraq or Afghanistan received.

SCMP:

During a marathon four-hour debate on a wide range of geopolitical and commercial grievances, Wang was said to have given Kallas – the former Estonian prime minister who only late last year took up her role as the bloc’s de facto foreign affairs chief – several “history lessons and lectures”.

Some EU officials felt he was giving her a lesson in realpolitik, part of which focused on Beijing’s belief that Washington will soon turn its full attention eastward, two officials said. One interpretation of Wang’s statement in Brussels is that while China did not ask for the war, its prolongation may suit Beijing’s strategic needs, so long as the US remains engaged in Ukraine.

vs

that they believed Wang was providing Kallas with a lesson in realpolitik during the four-hour encounter.

No mentioning of the “history lessons and lectures”, which is a friendlier way of saying that he has referenced past behavior that suggest that the EU is in the wrong.

There seems to be ignorance about what is going to happen even right at the top of the EU. The Chinese minister is calling bullshit. Yet Kallas must have already known better.

[–] LegoBrickOnFire@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

It's actually interesting! It means that there is a way out: If europe accepts to help keep the US out of Beijings business. I don't actually know how that could be done. And the EU doesn't have that kind of coesion.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 5 minutes ago

The US wants to stay the hegemon but China is advancing technology faster than the US. The conflict is about the multipolar world. Unfortunately the US, and the EU, haven't explained why they don't want to be part of a multipolar world.

[–] ms_lane@lemmy.world 9 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

China has chosen to be the enemy the west and rules based order then.

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 9 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

rules based order

The rules based order is allowing genocide to happen in Gaza.

[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The thread is about Ukraine. I am all for the genocide in Gaza to stop but can you try not to hijack any post about every other conflict?

[–] Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 8 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't see Xilly old bear and Puddin lifting any fingers, either. I guess they do agree on the US on something!

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

China has acknowledged Palestinians' right to armed resistance and recognizes Palestinian statehood unlike most Western countries. But it is unfortunate that they didn't do more.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

UN Security Council resolutions have demanded Hamas release the hostages taken. This has been ignored by Hamas and thus provided Israel with a reason to continue the war.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 27 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

tramp has chosen to be the enemy of the west and the rules based order, China's just been having a wonderful time flying under the cover of the daily orange meltdown since the clown show started.

PS: they don't even have to do anything, they just have to point at trump and say "democracy, you mean THAT?" And they'll be using it as evidence against the "chaos of democracy" worldwide.

[–] Allemaniac@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

any sociological doctorates in here? What does it say about the state of the ruZZian war, when chinas FM weighs in on their vision for the war?

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago

Russia is hugely dependent on trade with China to continue the war effort. They have replaced western imports with Chinese goods, including parts for weapons. North Korea would not sell arms and send troops to Russia without Chinese approval either. China buys Russian oil and gas as well.

The Russian war effort is going well and looks like it will be sustainable for years while Chinese support continues.

[–] drdiddlybadger@pawb.social 50 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

That is a startlingly weak position for China to be in.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 14 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Not really startling. No big player other than Russia has ever been on China's side RE Taiwan.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I feel like Russian support is pretty much a rounding error when it comes to Chinese power.

[–] sujeito@kbin.earth 38 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Implying that the US could be too focused on Russia right now to help Taiwan defend against a Chinese invasion sounds like wishful thinking considering how little they are doing to help Ukraine.

[–] BenjiRenji@feddit.org 8 points 9 hours ago

Well, they need to help Israel fight a multi-front war and commit genocide at the same time. That's more than just walking and chewing gum at the same time.

[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Not just Beijing.

[–] perestroika@slrpnk.net 20 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

As a side note: there is speculation that China may be approaching a change of leader due to Xi experiencing health issues (not a change of leadership in the wider sense - the collegial system of the CCP is considered to be functioning).

Thus, it may be impossible for the Chinese foreign minister to be fully confident of what China's policy will be in the future.

Obviously, China views it as unacceptable for Russia (its ally and soon enough, practically its vassal) to all-out lose. (The easiest way to not lose, of course, is not starting a war, but that train is long gone and behind the hills.)

Prolonging the war does not eliminate this risk well, however - exhaustion could spread in Russian society and morale could collapse despite the state spewing its propaganda, or the economy could collapse. So, simply propping up Russia by letting them buy the goods they shouldn't be getting is not a very elegant solution. Direct interference on behalf of Russia would lead to open hostility with the EU, which is currently ambivalent about China.

What remains is nudging Russia to negotiate. But Putin is hard-headed and only willing to negotiate Ukraine's surrender, on terms which Ukrainians will laugh out of the door.

As for the US being able to focus on China, well I guess they're a bit concerned about it, but given the mental and organizational capability of the current US leadership, I don't think Chinese analysts are particularly worried.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 1 points 1 hour ago

I only see news relating to General Zhang Youxia and replacing Xi Jinping with Wang-Yi in Indian news sites, is this related to their recent renewed support for the Dalai Lama out of the blue?

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 hours ago

Chinese foreign policy regarding Russia is unlikely to change under a new leader. Supporting Russia‘s war by continued trade while publicly calling for a diplomatic solution is a very comfortable position. They weaken the West while making Russia more dependent on them. All of that while getting financial advantages from importing cheap energy from Russia and exporting goods.

The posturing regarding Taiwan could change in tone, but fundamentally China‘s goals and interests are unchanged.

Things are going pretty well for China on many levels.

[–] DrFistington@lemmy.world 18 points 16 hours ago

Ahh, so Trump gets his orders from the Chinoruskie empire...

[–] redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

For now. Ideally they lose in a few years once China has a better position

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 13 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

You can count on tramp and his fascist toadies to lose their proxy war with China without a fight by refusing to acknowledge it until no asian ally is willing to resist or share intel out of fear of getting betrayed, like the EU and Ukraine.

[–] redsand@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 hours ago

5 eyes and 14 eyes are both falling apart

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Wang's reported comments suggest that Russia's war in Ukraine may serve China's strategic needs as focus is deviated away from Beijing's mounting preparation to launch its own eventual invasion into Taiwan.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 15 hours ago

U.S. President Donald Trump, who has not managed to broker a promised ceasefire between Moscow and Kyiv, has long viewed China as the United States' main adversary and is predominantly focused on relations between the two nations.

Heys the only one that can negotiate a peace. On day one!

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

What Confucious say about rainchecks?

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