this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2025
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[–] nonentity@sh.itjust.works 41 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Until there is legitimate, sustained, and effective opposition to this Alligator Auschwitz, the rest of the world sees it as American as apple pie and school shootings.

It’s speed running to the wrong side of history.

[–] sykaster@feddit.nl 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Apple pie isn't American, it's origin is in England and the European mainland afterwards.

School shootings are American and they can keep those.

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[–] ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

When has America been on the 'right side of history'? It's been humanity's bully ever since WW2, and before that they murdered and displaced the locals. I see this as nothing more than an expression of the well known Anglo-Saxon (read: Germanic) MO/ideology. Idk what's up with them, honestly, but you can count on a majority of them to choose murder and pillage before morals, peace and self-restraint.

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[–] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 58 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

America started down this path all the way back in 9/12/2001. We didn't hold Bush accountable, Obama, Trump, or Biden. Now the lunatic is using the tools provided to him.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago (2 children)

O'bama

This is killing me lol

[–] lobut@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Didn't know he was half-irish 😃

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 points 1 day ago

Aren't all Americans, even the 100% Italians?

[–] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Honestly, it started sooner I think, or more to the point, it's had this sort of tendency lurking in the background for it's whole history to lesser and greater extents, the last few decades until the current one just being something of a lower period that makes this stand out by contrast.

After all, these aren't exactly the first concentration camps built in or by the United States, the country has a history with forced labor and institutionalized racial supremacy so severe that the country literally split itself apart over it at one point, and it's founding and expansion to it's current borders involved the genocide of those already living on the land in question.

The silver lining to all this I guess, if you can call it that, is that this history and the fact we even had something of a relative lul in all this, implies that as bleak as things look, the racism, nativism, and disenfranchisement can be squashed down again, because it's been done here before.

and it’s founding and expansion to it’s current borders involved the genocide of those already living on the land in question.

This. The USA was founded on genocide.

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I find it really annoying how Americans are so ignorant of history that they literally cannot make any historical comparisons outside of Nazi Germany. This is the only historical point of reference in American discourse. All historical comparisons default back to it because Americans don't know anything else, not even their own history... like the Japanese Interment camps. Recorded human history is around 10,000 years old and it has everything, but somehow people in this country think there are no historical events or time periods to draw parallels from outside of what happened in central Europe during Hitler's reign.

[–] Octavio@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yah but to be fair, MAGA isn’t helpful in this regard by being so much like the Nazis.

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I mean it's fine to make comparisons if they're valid, but Nazi Germany comparisons are literally the only comparisons that I see. I never see these camps being compared to the Russian Gulags or MAGA being compared to the Know Nothings from the 1850s or Trump being compared to Andrew Jackson, and so on. These comparisons are also accurate and valid, and I would argue that they add an element of depth that our discourse severely lacks.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Essentially all history education in the US is heavily politicized except for WW2, the only thing Americans could agree on about the last 200 years is that Nazis were bad, and even that is now becoming 'controversial', with some schools like in Florida wanting to teach more about "both sides" of the holocaust. There's a reason my mom really loved the quote "Don't let school get in the way of your education."

The average knowledge of the things you mentioned would be "isn't Jackson the guy on the $20?" "Weren't gulags in Siberia or something? What even is a gulag exactly?" And "'Know Nothings'?? Yeah I literally 'know nothing' about that."

It's up to individuals and families to teach their kids actual history, and most parents both work and have little time to teach their kids anything that the schools don't teach them. And now I see kids leaning history from youtubers, it's a pretty depressing situation.

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

While I agree with your point that parents should take an active role in teaching their kids history, I also think a lot of adults need to actually spend time educating themselves because they lack basic historical knowledge themselves. A lot of grown adults don't know why Jackson is on the $20 bill or what the gulags even are. We can't possibly educate the next generation when the current generation is ignorant. We need to have some sort of shift in our society to emphasize the importance history and historical accuracy because our national discourse is severely lacking in nuance and depth.

[–] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 23 hours ago

Definitely, we have been trending further toward anti-intellectualism for a while, not just history but people of all ages need to recognize that learning is a lifelong process, you can't just graduate high school and be done with it. Things learned in school even ten years ago or less can be outdated, society as a whole is learning more about the past all the time.

[–] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you had to compare what's going on AND our trajectory to a horrible historical event, which would it be and why?

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The most relevant and accurate historical comparison to Trump is Andrew Jackson. Tell me if any of this about Jackson sounds familiar to you:

  • Andrew Jackson was the first US president to not be one of the founding fathers. He aggressively campaigned as an anti-establishment candidate who would fight for the "common man" and against the corrupt elites... even though he was wealthy himself (though unlike Trump, Jackson was actually self made and came from humble beginnings).

  • He ran for president in 1824 and lost to John Quincy Adams. Instead of accepting his loss, he insisted that the election was rigged and he only lost because of the "corrupt bargain" where Jackson and his supporters believed that the think that congress conspired against them to give Adams the election.

  • He was a very thin skinned man who was known for his volatility and anger. He would often snap and throw temper tantrums when someone says or does something he doesn't like. He's notoriously famous for having hundreds of duels during his life time. He's also known for demonizing any political opponent that crosses him as unpatriotic, corrupt, elitist, unholy, and anti-American.

  • He was extremely loyal to his allies and friends, and rewarded a lot of them with influence and political access. During his presidency he had a scandal that fractured his official cabinet, he started relying heavily on a group of informal advisers, most of whom were his friends or political loyalists. It was so bad that his opponents literally coined the term “Kitchen Cabinet" to criticize the outsized influence his friends and allies held despite lacking official positions.

  • Jackson was extremely patriotic and he fiercely fought for and imposed his version of patriotism, and he often framed things in us vs them mentality. For example, in the 1828 election, he famously said "this election is a contest between an honest patriotism on the on the one side, and an unholy, selfish ambition, on the other".

  • He was extremely racist. He explicitly hated native Americans as he saw them as savages who obstructed progress (expansion). He also viewed African Americans inferiors, and he was pretty big supporter of slavery. In fact he was a slave owner himself and never questioned the morality of it like his predecessors. To him, this country was for white European settlers and it was to be ruled by exclusively by white men. However, he did support expanding suffrage for all white men instead of just land owning ones, so I guess there's that.

  • He had a habit of ignoring Supreme Court rulings and doing what he wanted anyway. Famously, he ignored the ruling of the Worcester vs Georgia case in which the Supreme Court determined that the state of Georgia could not impose its laws on the Cherokee nation as it was seen as an independent country. This essentially prohibited settlers from encroaching on their lands. However, Jackson ignored this and not only encroached on their lands, but took it over and deported the entire nation to Oklahoma in an event that became known as the trail of tears.

  • He had a habit of being very hostile to the press when they're critical of him and very supportive when they praise him. He would often call the editors and journalists against him as corrupt and tools of the political elite who were out to slander him. At the same time, he rewarded very loyal editors and journalists with government contracts and exclusive access.

  • He very famously hated the national bank. He saw the bank as unconstitutional and undemocratic because he thought it favored the rich and was nothing more than a tool for the corrupt elite, and that this power should be devolved down to the states. He also personally hated the idea of paper of money and preferred hard money (like gold and silver) and had a grudge against the president of the national bank at the time because he thought he helped fund his opponents against him. Regardless, he made it's destruction a populist crusade and he succeeded in dismantling it. When the Federal Reserve was established, they intentionally added Jackson on the $20 bill as a giant fuck you to him and his legacy.

  • By destroying the national bank and drying up federal funds, he directly contributed to the panic of 1837, which was one of the worst economic crises of the time.

Do you see the similarities? You should because Trump saw Jackson as an inspiration and he even hanged his picture in the Oval Office. I don't know about you, but this seems like a much more relevant, accurate, and insightful comparison to Trump than Hitler. Hitler and Trump have very little in common as individuals and as leaders. This is why I find it annoying that our discourse has no other point of reference outside of Nazi Germany.

[–] Thrawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago

Very good list in my opinion and definitely matches my memory from learning about Andrew Jackson in the past.

I agree that Trump is no Hitler. While by some magic the crowds at his events like him he absolutely isn't the orator Hitler was among a lot of other differences.

However I still say the overall party/political movement he is head of is extremely fascist and incorporating a lot of Nazi elements. The flip to that is that the Nazis got a lot of stuff from the USA and the Nazis loved our racist policies in the 30s and our history of doing things like the westward expansion and what that did to the native people.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

ignorant, is understatement, i think some areas arnt even teaching history from ww2 and on

[–] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

A lot of American schools are now basically only teaching the civil rights movement and a very water downed version of the cold war after teaching about WWII, and very rarely, some schools might dabble into 9/11 and the war on terror if they have time at the end of the year. There is no emphasis at all on international history.

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[–] Buske@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

They are ALREADY DYING IN THESE CAMPS. We are all complicit at this point.

[–] Soulg@ani.social 16 points 1 day ago

Go fuck yourself I have been and will continue to do what little I can to fight this and I am not remotely complicit

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What are we supposed to do? Go there ourselves? I'm not trying to be a dick but what can normal people do to help?

[–] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Imagine what a person in one of those cages would want to do if they weren't in those cages.

We need to do what's right.

[–] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Alright, I'm right behind you.

[–] kurikai@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago

Dont forget media consolidated and owned by the wealthy

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