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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/32265822

xkcd #3109: Dehumidifier

xkcd #3109: Dehumidifier

Title text:

It's important for devices to have internet connectivity so the manufacturer can patch remote exploits.

Transcript:

[A store salesman, Hairy, is showing Cueball a dehumidifier, with a "SALE" label on it. Several other unidentified devices, possibly other dehumidifier models, are shown in the store as well.]

Salesman: This dehumidifier model features built-in WiFi for remote updates.
Cueball: Great! That will be really useful if they discover a new kind of water.

Source: https://xkcd.com/3109/

explainxkcd for #3109

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[–] tjoa@feddit.org 4 points 12 hours ago (4 children)

FYI I learned About VLANs that it is in no way „locked down“. I can spoof the MAC address of a known device from a specific VLAN and I’m in that VLAN. Yes your devices can’t reach the internet/other devices by default but it won’t stop a bad actor.

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

and this is why I have a completely separate physical network for my IOT stuff.

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Well. The segmentation is to avoid security holes from Rogue third party devices. If you can access my pc vlan that only exists on my wired pcconnection, then you have indeed broken in to my domain. Letting the things that doesn't give a shit about security have their own network is just sanity/sanitary.

Isn't that what 802.1x is for? If you really want to lock down your network, there are options.

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

I'm aware you need a firewall (I used sonicwall professionally) vlans are for segmentation

[–] Kiernian@lemmy.world 8 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

New kinds of water, you say? The marketing department is already on it and boy have I got news for you!

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

Wait... Is that heavy water?? /s

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 4 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

How about I hook you up with a brand new water softener on a 30 year lease but no payments in the first 5 years so it’ll be the next owner’s problem

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 4 points 19 hours ago

Omfg it's like solar panel companies...

So many damn houses with solar leases more expensive than just electricity

[–] irotsoma@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, companies have abused that to release buggy, incomplete products faster and only make the software stable and feature complete if they make a good profit.

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 6 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Or add new bloat features / brick devices after updating TOS...

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Remote device bricking is cheaper than researching part wear for planned obsolescence.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 1 points 21 hours ago

And both make me go with a different company next time so idk what they think they're gaining.

[–] Tiger_Man_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Internet of things sucks, but lan of things is pretty cool

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

you must have lots of LoTs

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Lord of the Trackers!

[–] teppa@piefed.ca 12 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I was an idiot and bought a high end TPLink router, I can't even use Vlans without signing up for their back door service.

[–] hexagonwin@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 day ago

maybe install openwrt/ddwrt?

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah. Even my old solid netgear got a firmware update that's begging me to get the app now. Shobe that shit up your ass.

At least give me a checkbox to stop bothering me

[–] RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Shit, are consumer appliances really getting that bad? ew!

[–] teppa@piefed.ca 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I'd assume all Chinese devices are being backdoored via CCP incentives. Buy Asus perhaps, assuming Taiwan never gets infiltrated.

[–] unique_hemp@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 11 hours ago

Don't buy ASUS, they have a terrible security record. At this point I would trust only MikroTik and Ubiquiti.

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[–] RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My house has manual windows, manual locks, and a dumb garage door controller... because I work in IT.

I do have a few smart appliances (environment reporting) but they are only allowed on the banishment VLAN so they don't get to interact with any single appliance inside my network. All they see is internet and nothing else.

[–] Nouveau_Burnswick@lemmy.world 6 points 21 hours ago

The S in IoT stands for security

[–] AnAustralianPhotographer@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And it probably needs to connect using WEP

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

wpa2, but password limited to 10 characters. letters and numbers only, trying anything else crashes it, and you have to figure this out yourself

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Nah, it will just broadcast a 2.4Ghz noise for no reason

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

I feel like it's missing that nifty FCC sticker...

[–] swampdownloader@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And you must enter password through a 2 character wide menu screen with only up and down arrows

[–] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

The up arrow moves through the letters, e.g., A->B->C. The down arrow moves to the next character in the sequence, e.g., C->CA->CAA. If you click past the correct letter, you’ll have to click all the way through again. And if you submit the wrong letter, you have to start all over (after it takes twenty seconds attempting to connect with the wrong password and then alerts you that it didn’t work, of course).

[–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 3 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

And when you press down, the current letter's value briefly increments to the next letter before being replaced by an asterisk. Z causes the router to crash.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I just shopped for a humidifier, purposely avoided anything "smart", I ended up with a really fucking simple one, it has a hydrostat and can aim to automatically reach a level you want (40-50-60), has 4 speed,1,2,3,auto and sleep.

And the whole thing is nothing else just a wicking filter sitting in water that has a fan pointed at it, I think Technology Connectios would be proud of my purchase.

I will have to disinfect and change filters, but no need for distilled water like with ultrasonic humidifiers, and I boil my water and let it cool back to room temperature before adding it to the humidifier, hopefully that will help with staving off build up of bacteria

[–] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Boiling definitely helps and is a hell of a lot cheaper than constantly buying gallons of distilled

[–] Dezorian@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 10 hours ago

I bought a distiller for €60 capable of distilling 4 liters of water (about 1 gallon) en generates some heat. The electricity cost is way lower than buying 4 liters of distilled water, don't need to throw away a 4 liter plastic bottles every time and the distiller heats up my room in the winter (when the air is dryest here).

[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I bought a Venta LW25 and couldn’t be happier. Simple and functional, good old German engineering

[–] DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works 3 points 22 hours ago

i love it when my vacum makes a remote connction to a other countrye goverment that way i get tracked by mine and theres whatba time we live in

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 63 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I have a rule that "Nothing will be automated that cannot be manually overridden."

Well, actually it's my wife's rule but it's a good rule nonetheless. As a result, there's a big panel full of relays in the basement that is the "last mile" for anything climate control or security related.

There have been a few times when it's been handy. Like when the exhaust fan isn't working and I don't want to debug the ESP32 controller today so I just flip it over to "Manual".

[–] JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

KNX.

Everything is decentrally programmed, and you can do extra automations and stuff from home assistant, but KNX devices are wired (generally) and will always Just Work™. More expensive that the cheaper retrofit options, but if you factor in manual overrides or getting the "better" wireless smart devices it is comparable. They generally also have a manual override at the panel. For core functions like lights, HVAC, roll shutters or blinds, etc... That is honestly the best option (unless you want every light to be an RGB light for some reason, then you still need smart bulbs)

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

That's a great rule of thumb. So setup two switches. One for manual and one with a ESP32.

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (5 children)

This has been my approach and it has gone okay so far except for 2 issues that are quite a pain:

1: you have to thoroughly research what you buy. Does it work on an isolated vlan? Just because it works with home assistant does not guarantee this. Many home assistant users are comfortable with some degree of data collection and an integration does not mean that it will work local only (nor does it mean that all features will work). If it does work local only you may sacrifice some features. Cameras are a good example. Most cameras with object/person detection do this in hardware, but not all. If you circumvent the Internet connection and proprietary app you may sacrifice this, or more likely alerts

2: there is 0 regulation binding a vendor to the terms of service agreed to at the point of sale, including making significant and sweeping changes. Case in point: I got a chamberlain myQ garage door opener. It worked well and opened my garage door. Integrated with home assistant via the API. However, chamberlain serves a lot of ads for upsells and services via their shitty app. They decided that users circumventing the app and not seeing that you could give amazon drivers access to your garage to deliver packages (seriously) or buy shitty cameras was unacceptable so they updated the TOS and revoked API access for all users. The only way it works now is via their app. I sold mine and built a ratgdo

Another example is Philips hue: while they have been able to be used local only for over a decade Philips has decided they’re going to start a subscription security service with all the devices that entails based around the hue hub. At some point in the near future if your hub updates it will require you to sign in to a Philips account and be online. This one’s way worse as some people have thousands of dollars invested in hue. I have like $300 in the fancier white hue bulbs but some people on the HA forums and reddit literally have their house decked out with like 80-100 bulbs, many of which are the RGB. Kind of silly but they do work very well, flicker free, good color, and last ages. I still have some from like 2016 going strong. Luckily here if you have the bridge on an isolated vlan it won’t update and worst case the bulbs work with ~~zwave~~ zigbee but the principle of the thing is ridiculous. It should be illegal for a company to change the terms this far after the contract of sale

Other examples too. Many car manufacturers (Mazda, Chevrolet, ford) because api access limited data collection for them to sell, some companies are openly hostile to home assistant and when an integration is created they will go out of their way to break it (Ariston, bambu), etc. see https://github.com/unixorn/internet-of-trash

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It got hacked and now I'm really, really dry.

[–] LuxSpark@lemmy.cafe 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Smart, you don't want some hacker to drown you remotely.

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Really you don't want hackers using your random Internet appliance as a point of attack to access your whole network.

More IoT devices means a greater attack surface. And it's an appliance you don't actually want to spend time thinking about. You don't want to waste time troubleshooting network issues with your dehumidifier... It just needs to work, or you use a different one.

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[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (19 children)

I just bought my first home and as soon as I'm decently unpacked I'm going to start my journey on self hosting.

Currently planning:

  • Small i5 HP Pro SFF PC for hosting large apps (going to config for Linux and power it off until I get more mature
  • Raspberry Pi4: pihole and home assistant
  • Raspberry Pi4: NextCloud, Deck
  • ZigBee router thing:
  • NAS
  • Jellyfin
  • JBOD on SFF?
  • flashing old Netgear nighthawk into wwdrt
  • OS Ticket to replace NextCloud Deck for a JIRA type solution to manage projects and major house items.
  • ZigBee thermometers for better Nest accuracy
  • ZigBee motion sensors for entry ways and bathroom
  • smart plugs and motion sensors for basement TV lights

Not sure what else to add. Open to advice or suggestions.

[–] tburkhol@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I've watched enough Lock Picking Lawyer never to want a consumer 'smart lock.' Half of them can be opened with a magnet. Maybe commercial grade is better, but I've been locked out of my job after every power failure for the last 10 years, until someone comes along with a physical key.

Re homeassistant on a Pi: homeassistant does a lot of database transactions, so you may want to have db storage on something other than an SD card.

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[–] k4j8@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Great list! If you already have the Raspberry Pi devices, great. If you were going to buy some, I would look at thin clients instead. Low-power, cheaper, more powerful, can use real hard drives instead of SD cards or adapters, and x86 instead of ARM. I have an HP T630 I like but I hear good things about the Dell Wyse 5070 too.

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