NonCredibleDefense

The community name checks out😉

How about this for a thought

Western countries just negotiate with Russia and everyone agrees that Ukraine doesn't join NATO because doing so destabilizes the entire region.

Instead everyone wants to shoehorn Ukraine into NATO even if it costs us all the risk of nuclear war.

Ukraine can still be protected and defended by western interests in other ways without involving NATO.

The big sticking point here is NATO ..... take it off the negotiating table, then you can see where the Russians are at.

Otherwise, there's a war being fought with a steady stream of people dying because someone wants to join an exclusive club?