this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2026
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[–] GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 12 points 4 days ago (2 children)

"If Kamala had done this..." - not a personal attack.

"If you (which is a plural, by the way) had done this..." - clearly a personal attack.

But please, assume the you was singular. How are those two statements different?

I'm not a fan of false dichotomies, but FPTP devolves into a dichotomy. Pretending it doesn't, or that even inaction has no bearing on the outcome, is just wishful thinking. There were two choices to be had, and every American who had the option made a choice, whether through action or inaction. Sure, Kamala could have made a statement to not support genocide. Maybe she would even have won if she had done so. But at the end of the day, a choice was still made, by each and every American with the option to vote.

[–] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You are arguing with someone who is lying to you. You will never "win" this argument or convince them because everything that they say is a lie with a complete different agenda than what they say.
Whether they are a bot or a person, paid or freelance psychopath, they are here to disenfranchise voters and convince young people to throw away their vote on nonsense, or that their vote is essentially meaningless and they shouldn't bother.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah. Everything that you don't like to hear is a psyop, sure buddy.

[–] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I was actually trying to be generous in saying that you had a plan and are doing a psyop... I mean it's painfully obvious that you don't give a shit about your own arguments, and you are obviously not dumb as most of the maga crowd. So if it is not a psyop, then it's some kind of masterbatory thing where you get off on upsetting people or being yelled at and insulted... At that's just gross... Not to cast shade on your kink, you do you king, but gross that you would involve other people in your kink without their knowledge or consent. I mean it makes you nothing more than a public masturbator, or some flasher waving their genitals at random people.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Kamala needed to adopt an anti genocide position to win the election. If you weren't advocating for that you weren't advocating to stop fascism. Simple as.

That's the issue you can't contend with, so you resort to ad hominems, claims of people being bots, etc. it's all to distract that you genuinely don't have an answer to the question if how Harris could have win the election if not for changing their position on this issue.

You can be mad and voters for voting against their interests. It's understandable and a valid criticism of voters. But what you can't do is claim that you didn't know that American voters can and will vote against their own interests. They did in 2016, clearly we both agree on that. They damn near voted against their own interests again in 2020, and if not for covid, Trump would have won that election. Relying on voters to simple vote better is political malpractice.

The strategy you are advocating for is that instead of the politician moving to a set of policies that their voters want and accept, we should rely on voters to simply "voter better". But we know Americans don't behave that way. We know you need to positively incentive American voters, especially Democrats, to show up.

The approach you are advocating for lost the 2016 and 2024 elections and handed the entire government to fascists.

[–] Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Kamala needed to grow a penis and be at least half white to win the election with the way the Dems fumbled it. That's what the Democrats learned. They learned that external length of the candidates genitals mattered more than the lives of every Palestinian, more than global warming, more than affordable health care, more than avoiding putting someone who is openly fascist and openly declaring that he will kill anyone who stands against him.

Of course my arguments are ad hominem, that's because your arguments are lies and just as fake as Donald's tan. Your arguments wind around on themselves and eat their own tails. Psyop, psycho, or raging pervert are the only three things left once we eliminate all of the things that you and your arguments are obviously not.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

You sound like a racist, sexist piece if shit with a view of elections that has consistently handed power to Republicans, over decades .

It's a simple fact that is now very well evidenced by even internal DNC post mortems. If Harris would have changed her position, she would have won the election. It's not because she had boobs. It's not because she was black. It's because she supported a genocide while trying to get elected among Democrats.

I'm not sure what you think your crash out here does.

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I'm not a fan of false dichotomies, but FPTP devolves into a dichotomy

This is just factually false, and it's as simple as looking at the vote results to acknowledge. You can want to present it as a binary, but in reality, voters have many options beyond vote R or vote D.

I don't really know how else to address this for you. Maybe you saw or heard some NPR or wall street journal clip about strategic voting and that was formative for your understanding of how elections work. Regardless, it was wrong because in the real world, when we run real elections, not hypothetical ones, voters choose to do or not do a wide range of different things.

That's not wishful thinking. That's looking at results from real elections. You aren't addressing reality, you are moralizing about how you wish things were, but aren't.

The point is that your moralizing and insistence doesn't have any bearing on how voters actually behave. You have to base your strategy on how things actually are, in the real world, backed up with receipts from real elections.

Strategic voting as strategy is irrelevant if voters don't actually behave that way. You might claim then that American voters are stupid voters who vote against their own their own interests because they don't abide by your approach. Ok fine. Then they are that way. But then you also must acknowledge that your outline if how to win an election is flawed because American voters don't behave that way.

You want voters to vote better but they don't. You want voters to be smarter but they aren't. If you are advocating a strategy that requires voters to be both smarter and better than they are, what's the likelihood of it succeeding?

You can't "fix" voter behavior. You can only adapt the strategies you rely on to accommodate real voters. Advocating strategic voting doesn't do this and lives in the realm of puritanical moralizing.

Sure, Kamala could have made a statement to not support genocide. Maybe she would even have won if she had done so.

That's it. It's all that matters. There was one path to winning the election and it was to get the candidate to change their policy in the most important issue of the election. There was no other path to victory for the Dems.

But at the end of the day, a choice was still made, by each and every American with the option to vote.

We agree that voters don't meet your moral standard. But if you are advocating for strategies that depend on voters being different than they are, its your fault when those strategies fail.

"If Kamala had done this..." - not a personal attack.

Are you Kamala Harris? If you are, Mamala, if I can call you Mamala, why didn't you change your stance on Gaza so that you could win the election?

"If you (which is a plural, by the way) had done this..." - clearly a personal attack.

But please, assume the you was singular. How are those two statements different

I apologize for interpretating the word "you" to mean the word "you". If you mean to speak of "they", you can use language like "voters", or the "electorate", or the "unwashed masses", whatever you prefer. But when you use the word "you" in response to something I say, there is no other way for me to interpret that other than by assuming you are directing the statement at me.

[–] GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 2 points 4 days ago

Sure, Kamala could have made a statement to not support genocide. Maybe she would even have won if she had done so.

That's it. It's all that matters. There was one path to winning the election and it was to get the candidate to change their policy in the most important issue of the election. There was no other path to victory for the Dems.

If that was all that mattered, people would have voted for less genocide, rather than refusing to vote so they could say they didn't vote for genocide, when in fact they said they were fine with whatever the rest of the voting public went with, which was inevitably some degree of genocide. Certainly, voting for Trump in protest wasn't a vote against genocide.

I apologize for interpretating the word "you" to mean the word "you". If you mean to speak of "they", you can use language like "voters", or the "electorate", or the "unwashed masses", whatever you prefer. But when you use the word "you" in response to something I say, there is no other way for me to interpret that other than by assuming you are directing the statement at me.

I'm sorry that your grasp of the English language is lacking. In that case, you, which is always syntactically plural, was used to refer to a singular individual.