this post was submitted on 11 Feb 2026
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Say a friend is looking for a new system, and said person is not particularly savvy with technology, what system would you point them toward?

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[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Bazzite. Fedora + drivers + immutable + gaming works out of the box.

[–] trongod_requiem0432@lemmy.world 0 points 10 hours ago

No, it doesn't.

[–] RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I fail to see how gaming has anything to do with my retired dad.

[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I didn't realize OP's question was 'What desktop operating system would you recommend to Scott's dad?' I guess I need new glasses.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I don't get the appeal of immutability. System files are read-only for users for a reason already. Don't modify them as root unless you know what you're doing and you'll be fine.

What am I missing?

(Also gaming for a 78 year old, meh.)

[–] mech@feddit.org 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Making them immutable for everyone protects users who enter their password in prompts without thinking.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How can the system be upgraded at all if not even the root user has access though?

[–] mech@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The updater downloads an updated copy of your root system and saves it next to the one you're running.
When you reboot the next time, the bootloader boots from that new system image.
Userspace applications are installed as flatpaks and sit in a writeable directory.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And "the updater" is what? A program running as [not root]? How does it have write access if nothing does?

[–] mech@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It's the package manager. And it doesn't have write access to your installed root either.
It doesn't change anything on your installed file system at all, it installs a new system next to it.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So it installs a whole new filesystem? Interesting. That feels like it sets limitations on how well you can take advantage of the full space of your hard drive.

And this action can only be performed by the package manager running under some magical God user that sits above root? Or some other mechanism?

[–] mech@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It utilizes the copy-on-write functionality of the BTRFS file system.
So it doesn't need double the disk space, it only actually writes the differences between your installed system and the new one.
And it runs normally with sudo, not some special god user.
You could do it manually, too.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

it runs normally with sudo

So root still has write access to the system then, gotcha. Then it's not really immutable per se, the package manager just has a different way of writing to the filesystem that simulates immutability, I guess?

[–] hikaru755@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

So root still has write access to the system then

No, not while the system is running. The base-layer of the OS is fully read-only.

An update doesn't write to the existing system, it creates a new one that will be switched to on next reboot. So the current system is not actually changed, hence the term immutability. This has two benefits:

  • atomic updates: either the upgrade is successful and you switch over to the new system, or it isn't and you stay on the untouched current system. There's no way to end up in a broken OS because an upgrade went sideways.
  • rollback: the old version stays untouched on disk, so even if the upgrade was successful but something still turns out to be broken after you boot into it, you can just switch back to the old, known-working system
[–] mech@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I get the feeling you're deliberately trying not to understand.
Maybe read up on how it works yourself, since I don't seem to get through to you.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

The hell? I'm trying to confirm whether I understood correctly or not. You are definitely mistaken.

Never mind, I'll find someone more polite.

[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What you're missing is that the question was what would you recommend to the average user.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Exactly, so there should be no reason to edit sensitive system files in either case. Great, further to my point.

[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] victorz@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Okay? I don't understand this reaction in this context. I'm just making statements lol. Not yelling at you.

[–] gigachad@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm not an immutable guy, but from what I heard it's more of a way to address programs and dependency hell, less the user modifying system code. Correct me if I am wrong

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Bazzite?

Really, you would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution for a non-tech person?

I'd want something stable and trusted rather than something new and hip

[–] hikaru755@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Yes.

  • In my Linux experience so far, Bazzite is the first time things have actually just worked out of the box and I haven't had to fix a single weird issue
  • It's immutable with atomic updates, so much lower likelihood of the base system getting messed up, and it's super easy to roll back to previous versions if something still manages to go wrong
  • Updates happen fully automatically in the background, you don't even notice it
  • You don't ever need to touch the terminal in normal usage. Everything is set up so that you can find any software a normie would need through the built-in app store. Flatpaks are great
  • If you object to the gaming focus, there's a variant that's just for regular desktop use and doesn't have the gaming stuff preinstalled, but otherwise comes with all the same benefits

The one thing I'll give you is that it's a young distro and hasn't proven itself to be reliable and still available in the long term, but honestly, given all the other benefits, I'll take that chance

[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Yes. I've been switching non-tech people to Linux for 17 years. Ubuntu used to be the go to, but it has a steep learning curve for the average user, sucks, and has gotten consistently worse. Everyone eats their shit over Mint, and Cinnamon is nice, but I'd still field a lot of complaints. Pop! OS is awesome, but still only 90% of the way there (and also people hate the name).
Bazzite is feature complete, requires zero tinkering on their end or mine, and 'just works' the way people expect a modern desktop OS to. I've converted just under a dozen people and several of my personal machines and haven't had an issue yet. So yes, I would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution to a non-tech person. Isn't Steam OS also young and gaming focused? And yet it's arguable that most non-tech people start their Linux journey there. bazzite is just an improvement on Steam OS. So yeah, I like it. I don't understand all the ire in this thread for my answer to the question. Everyone has their opinion, I have field research.

[–] Retail4068@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

If you pick the correct hardware. Which is a crap shoot per distro, bazzite included.

[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

People keep saying this but I've not had a single solitary issue getting Bazzite working on a myriad of older and newer devices.

[–] Retail4068@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I've had issues on multiple devices.

[–] alekwithak@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Which devices, if I may ask? I'm curious under which circumstances I should definitely not recommend it.

[–] Retail4068@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

MSI tomahawk mags, one with a 10700, the other with a12700. Nvidia GPUs. Nothing out of the ordinary.