Star Trek Social Club
r/startrek: The Next Generation
Star Trek news and discussion. No slash fic...
Maybe a little slash fic.
Rules
1 Be constructive
All posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.
2 Be welcoming
It is important that everyone from newbies to OG Trekkers feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.
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Utilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. There is no formal spoiler protection for episodes/films after they have been available for approximately one week.
6 Keep on-topic
All submissions must be directly about the Star Trek franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.
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Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 01-29 | SFA 1x04 | "Vox in Excelso" |
| 02-05 | SFA 1x05 | "Series Acclimation Mil" |
| 02-12 | SFA 1x06 | "Come Let's Away" |
| 02-19 | SFA 1x07 | TBA |
| 02-26 | SFA 1x08 | TBA |
In Production
Strange New Worlds (TBA)
In Development
Untitled comedy series
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It was okay, and I like that we got some insight into why Jay-Den is the way he is.
But... to be honest, I’m not sure why this debate between Caleb and Jay-Den is even happening. If they’re going to throwing regulations and laws around, doesn’t the actual Prime Directive exist anymore? Because I’ve not heard a single mention of it. If the PD exists, you just don’t mess with the internal workings of a civilisation (TOS: “The Apple” and “The Return of the Archons” notwithstanding). You can offer, you can plead, but whether they accept is their choice and right, even if it means they go extinct because of it. Yes, I know it’s all a metaphor for Jay-Den’s internal struggles, and perhaps given how they’re debating the Prime Directive is now scattered across several statutes and case law instead of one all-encompassing General Order and other sub-orders (VOY: “Infinite Regress”). But when you’re talking about this kind of situation, it’s precisely the Prime Directive you should be using to frame the debate.
Also, I saw the ending coming from very early on in the episode - it’s the obvious solution, and they should have thought of it so much earlier. Yes, if conquest, not charity, is what Klingons care about, just let them “conquer” Faan Alpha!
I think the debate club is exactly the place for the conversation - Vance and Starfleet are following the PD. They've made the offer, been declined, and are...well, not respecting it, but obeying it. The worst you can say about them is that they're being persistent, trying to convince someone in the Klingon leadership structure to change their mind. That may be a little obnoxious, but I don't think it violates any Starfleet principles to give it a shot.
That leaves the cadets to debate whether respecting the Klingons' wishes is a good thing in this case, and I don't think there's any indication that the debate has any weight to it - it's not going to affect Federation foreign policy.
I liked that "good" debaters tended to fall back on Federation law and Starfleet regulations, whereas the message is to continue to treat people with respect to their culture and identity (even if that identity is sometimes muddled).
I do agree, but (a) Starfleet's pretty out of practice with this stuff, and we saw in the premiere just how black-and-white they became during the Burn, and (b) if it doesn't work out...well, you've got a botched "Vulcan Hello" on your hands, which isn't great.
Caleb explicitly mentions the Prime Directive, stating that it doesn't apply here, but without explaining why not. I always understood that this directive applies only to pre-warp societies, which the Klingon society is not, but I may be wrong.
The PD applies to all civilizations, but is more permissive with those that are already capable of FTL travel. When a species is out travelling the galaxy, you can interact and negotiate with them, but you can't directly interfere with their business.
Caleb is leaning hard into the "pre-warp" side of it, as many fans tend to do, which is why he said those particular regulations don't apply. He's just conveniently ignoring the rest of the PD, assuming it's still in force in the 32nd century.
Edit: I'm wrong - I was conflating Caleb's argument and the earlier debate about returning to pre-warp times. Caleb's argument isn't explained, and we funny get to hear what he's saying immediately before.
I agree that the resolution to the conflict was obvious and it took the episode a bit too long to get there.
Not sure about the PD. I guess it is complicated by the fact that we are talking about the Klingons, a foe and friend for like a millennium. It's hard to turn away from their struggle. But the federation comes across as if they're not looking at Klingons on the same level. Like "look at this planet, it has lots of Vulcans, you will love it", as if Earthlings would be happy if Klingons showed them a planet and are like "this place is 80% water, take it". I know that's not even discussed in the episode, but that's, at least to me, a bigger point than what the Klingons bring up. Home is where the heart is? But then again, Klingons do what Klingons do, so yeah, let's battle it out