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MAGA and the rest of their racist/fascist bunch have zero interest in good faith discussion. As such, others who might have engaged in discussion in the past are no longer choosing to waste their time doing so. It's too much like playing chess with a pigeon, but with substantial consequences.
The problem goes a lot further than just MAGA. Again, nuance. This isn’t a one-sided issue. Frankly, I’m noticing it a lot more here on lemmy than I am elsewhere if I had to be honest.
Very few people are willing to discuss/debate topics without polarizing the issue, and then attacking someone for having said things they never said to begin with.
I see it every day.
Yes, it does. And, if you're willing to engage in a good faith conversation, we can have that discussion. Here's the thing; MAGA and its leaders are patently bad. Not every person associated with MAGA is bad. We can talk in good faith about where the line is for the second group. We can talk in good faith about about what forces are in play that create this situation.
However, there is no good faith conversation to be had in defense of MAGA and its leaders.
Your turn...
Again, nuance. There are people from ALL political affiliations, and all walks of life that do this- not just MAGA.
I’m not going to turn this into a political debate as it’s not a political post. The point is that people seem to be too quick to argue, and not quick enough to use rational and nuanced thought before arriving at their conclusions.
I love how the people on this thread are just hard proving your point here.
I mean, that kinda sounds like whataboutism. The other person was talking about maga specifically and you said "people from...all walks of life do this"
But I think nuanced conversation is so much work. It takes so much energy and patience and attention and people just don't have those things anymore.
edit just realized in this micro example that you were trying to speak in broad terms, and they were trying to be specific. So even tho you were trying to talk about the same idea, your scales were different. Now you have to spend time addressing this discrepancy instead of what you actually want to talk about.
That, but also- I don’t want to turn this into a giant political soapbox for people to air their grievances. The point is the lack of nuance, not let’s circlejerk about MAGA.
But yeah. It is a pretty good micro example.
What do you want to talk about, then?
I agree. There's no debate to be had. Just like there is no debate to be had about whether vaccines cause autism. However, you are refusing to engage. You could have said, "Yes, MAGA is awful and that's not the conversation I'd like to have. However, you didn't do that. You literally (intentionally or unintentionally) defended MAGA and then complained again that there just isn't any nuance.
You aren't seeing nuanced conversations because you're watching one side disavow law, science, and decency and then pretending that we should give a rat's ass what they have to say.
Again... you're asking for rational people to play a high-stakes game of chess with a pigeon and then getting upset that, instead, they shoo away the pigeon. You need to respond that you understand this, that you disagree with it, or something. Again, your very behaviors are why you're not seeing nuanced conversations -- giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is actually what you want.
And, I propose that what you are doing is part of the problem and why you're not seeing the nuanced conversation you're seeking. You're literally making excuses and space for MAGA. You are deflecting and changing the topic. You are coming across as disingenuous. Part of having a nuanced conversation is that you must participate in it and do so in good-faith. Don't waste my or anyone else's time with this virtue signaling. You are why people aren't having the conversation you profess to want to see happening. Any further questions?
Reading is hard, huh?