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How the Senate Democratic leader and his Gang of Eight keep trying to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

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[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

His proposal pushes the healthcare debate into the height of midterm season, all while demonstrating an eagerness to reopen the government. He's eliminating republican talking points regarding the shutdown while forcing the debate on the campaign trail. This is a smart move.

[–] jontree255@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago (1 children)

All caving does is make Dems look weak against Trump. Again. No one gives a shit if it’s “good politics” or “strategy”.

There’s no reason to cave. GOP controls the govt. Make them nuke the filibuster if they want the govt open.

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

My point is, at least in part, that the proposal to extend healthcare subsidies for a year is not caving.

[–] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Bullshit. It's caving and saying that they can let them expire in a year. The subsidy needs to be ironclad - and the alternative is that we repeal every law related for-profit health care as anything legal.

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And in that year, it will be used as a talking point to motivate people to vote. And then (hopefully), enough of congress will agree to a budget that includes the subsidies, among other things

[–] Infynis@midwest.social 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh yeah, like Roe v Wade! That went great!

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Since Roe v Wade was overturned, nearly every vote to grant abortion access passed. It's an issue that motivates voters to act.

However, it would seem that enough dems caved to the republican budget that it doesn't matter. So basically everything I've said in this thread regarding the hopeful strategy that was put forth is moot. I'm back to being disappointed.

[–] Infynis@midwest.social 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Row v Wade was only able to be overturned because Democrats wanted to be able to run on the platform of defending it, rather than just codifying it into law

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The belief in the courts and with politicians was that it was settled law and therefore not up for debate. The dems, at least as far as I know, had nothing to do with the case being overturned. It wasn't codified into law for two main reasons - there wouldn't have been enough votes and/or a president wouldn't veto it, and it wasn't seen as necessary given the fact that it was settled law.

Do you have sources for any of this? Because it sounds a little too ridiculous to be truthful

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There will be no debate. It will be extended until after the election. Democrats will try to make it a campaign issue, but since there will be no shutdown forcing attention, Republicans will just ignore it. Like they did up until the shutdown happened. People may be vaguely worried, but it won't be a thing that's happening now so they'll just assume something will be done, and the extension now will condition them to believe that.

If you think fighting about politics now is not important to the midterms, then demonstrating willingness to open the government and eliminating Republican taking points is also unimportant. However solidifying that Republicans are powerful and Democrats will always roll over is important. Not just for elections, but for standing up against fascism now.

Chuck Schumer is not and has not ever been an electoral genius.

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, worked out really well when he caved this spring so we could force the debate during the current elections so he can cave again to push it off to next year's elections.

Totally not kicking the can down the road.

[–] tburkhol@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In fact, I'd argue that perpetually kicking a hugely popular Democratic issue to the next election cycle says he specifically doesn't want it solved, so that it can keep the same campaign literature.

[–] Fermion@mander.xyz 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Schumer can't let the party actually eat the carrot, then they might stop following him.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 week ago

he needs continued support for israel thats his real reason, his donors are getting nervous,.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not sure if optimism or naïveté.

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It's neither - I'm just pointing out how the game is played

There is no more game. Either we destroy every part of Project 2025, and we imprison all the people involved. And that means 90% of the MAGApublicans.

[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 1 week ago

it isnt a game, when its one side that holds all the cards, pushing an unfavorable legislation isnt going to help dems get re-elected in the house.

[–] _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This ain’t a fucking game, you entitled twatwaffle. People are dying while you gloat over old white men playing politics.

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In what way am I entitled? In what way am I gloating?

I understand the stakes, and I hate what the country has become. It is disgusting that republicans are using people who rely on SNAP and healthcare subsidies as pawns to advance this stupid agenda that's making life worse for the majority of the country.

Instead of hurling insults at someone analyzing the situation, maybe you could educate yourself on political game theory. Perhaps then you'll understand where I'm coming from in referring to politics as a game.

[–] _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

maybe you could educate yourself on political game theory

says the person who thinks it's a good thing the democrats just traded promises of absolutely nothing for everything the republicans wanted. you're celebrating that the democrats just condemned ~50,000 people to death every year because they won't be able to afford health insurance as a genius political move in some grand game you've made up in your head. you're pretty fucking disgusting, dude.

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[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Did you miss the part where all of this was said before they caved, and the proposal was to extend healthcare subsidies for a year as a compromise to reopen the government? Which would give dems what they asked for while forcing the debate during midterms?

Maybe this will help you understand

[–] _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sorry, did me pointing out how you're getting mad at someone on the same side as you for analyzing the situation upset you?

Maybe take your own advice, twatwaffle

[–] _cryptagion@anarchist.nexus 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

first of all, you're not on the same side as me, liberal. you're slightly left of republicans, and still right of center. nobody who is celebrating poor people dying gets to say they're on the same side as me.

second, you didn't point out shit. you're argument was so unbelievably stupid that literally nobody has agreed with you. you're getting downvoted because you have a grade school understanding of politics and think you're far more clever than you actually are, and naturally you're the only person who thinks that. the reason I'm responding to you with memes is because I'm quite sure you aren't capable of grasping anything more substantial. I'm half tempted to use grunts when speaking to you, as I'm sure with your neanderthal level of intelligence, it would be more comfortable to hear your native tongue. you don't have the capability to upset me. the only emotion you'll ever provoke out of me is sympathy for how hard I imagine it is to tie your shoes.

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago

First and foremost, I'm very liberal. I've also pointed out in this thread and other other comments on this post that I am firmly against the pause on SNAP benefits, among other things.

The original proposal was to extend healthcare subsidies for a year as a compromise to agree to the budget. I've pointed out, in this thread and others, why that's a good idea - it reopens the government, which means government employees will finally be paid, it gets SNAP funds moving again, and it extends the healthcare subsidies which can be a talking point to motivate voters in the next election (which would then hopefully mean laws would be passed to ensure affordable healthcare to everyone). Again, all of this was based on that proposal, and before dems caved to the budget as it stands.

Think about this for a moment - by having the government shut down, and not compromising on anything, more people will go hungry and die and more people fall below the poverty line. That is what your position enables - the exact opposite of what you're saying you stand for.

Would it be great if the republicans caved first? Absolutely, without a doubt. But, with the number of congresspeople under trumps thumb, and with the strategies being suggested (like ending the filibuster), that was unlikely.

Instead of considering all of that, you've made all sorts of assumptions about me, and did your best to insult me.

I'm sorry you're frustrated with the state of the world right now. I am too, along with millions of others. We might not agree on a path forward, but at least we can agree that none of what's happening is okay and that things need to change

[–] PriorityMotif@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They punted Trumps prosecutions for the same reason. It's a stupid plan.

[–] paranoid@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The plan doesn't work all the time - there's always risk

That being said, punting on the prosecutions is the most disappointing and disgusting thing that led trump to power. They relied on the idea that voters wouldn't elect him simply based on j6 and the indictments, but underestimated the stupidity of voters and the way trump manipulates his base. Having bootlickers in places of power to slow it all down certainly did not help.

Regardless, a bunch of dems caved to the budget without the extension of subsidies, so none of it matters anyway