this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2025
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The only reason that “morals are deeply contextual” is that average people are dumb as shit in all the ways that matter. Moral reasoning is similar to mathematics, but whereas we have formalized math, which people study in school for 12+ years (and are still terrible at it), morality is a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants-and-do-your-best endeavor.
That’s why there’s such a discrepancy between the opinions of ethicists and those of average people. Why we had slavery for 10,000 years, why Trump was elected. Why billionaires, religions, and cruise ships exist. Because average people are dumb as shit in all the ways that matter, and no discipline in the world reminds us just how close the average human is to a mindless animal than ethics.
We had slavery for thousands of years because the enlightenment occurred only a few hundred years ago and it brought about the concept of liberalism (not like liberal/conservative but liber like short for liberty or liberate - meaning freedom). Up until that point there was only basic pathos that would allow people to feel bad for a slave's conditions but usually not to the extent that it would lead to a full abolition movement.
Yes. There were countless folks of every generation since time immemorial begging their fellow humans to use basic reasoning to see the evil of their actions. To no avail. It took thousands of years of social progress and education to convince (a plurality of) people of the most rudimentary and blatant moral facts. Because the average human is dumb as shit about everything that matters.
There have always been societies that didn't have slavery, they have happened on every continent (except that one) and in every sufficiently long era.
Are you a vegan by chance?
I feel like that's the next big moral shift. People lionize dogs and cats, and harming one makes you literally Hitler. But there's not a lick of difference between a dog and a cow.
I think that an objective ethicist would absolutely say veganism is the only moral choice, and that anyone who isn't a vegan is knowingly participating in unimaginable cruelty.
But in our current context, only a small fraction of people care. Including a lot of people who look down on people of the past for not being as amazingly moral as they are.
I mean, in the end an animal is an animal. I have had cats and dogs and don't really like to see them hurt because (in the West) there is no purpose for their existence besides being pets.
Cows and livestock, on the other hand, only exist for food and we keep breeding them for that.
At the same time, is don't really see a problem with the cultures that eat cats and dogs, in the end, it's all just animals and it doesn't matter if I think that some of them look cuter than others
Yes, I agree. In about a century folks will look back on modern humans as irredeemable monsters. And they would be right! This is an objective fact, and downvotes don’t change normative reality. More’s the pity.
I only see this happening if lab grown meat takes off in a really big way. Which I'm in favor of, but with how it's been going I'm not so sure.
Assuming civilization (i.e., democracy) survives, it will happen. Democracy is almost ineluctable in promulgating moral progress. That’s one of the chief reasons that it’s under such sustained attack. Can’t have the poor and ignorant learning right from wrong.
dogs can be housebroken
Puppies aren't housebroken and their meat would be very tender.
they can be housebroken, though.
Then they're no longer a puppy but a dog.
Besides, cows can be housebroken. https://www.cnet.com/science/scientists-show-cows-can-be-potty-trained-just-like-your-favorite-pets/
There's also pigs. Pot bellied pigs were a popular pet a few years ago.
so I guess there is no difference at all. I can take em to the dog park and watch em run and tussle and play fetch...
it's clear they are different, and saying they're not is just a lie.
I mean, I'm not a vegan, but yes, you literally can. Pigs are generally regarded as intelligent creatures in the same vein as dogs.
What animals we eat and which we don't is a purely cultural affectation. There's nothing wrong with a cultural affectation, but there's not a fundamental difference between what creatures it's okay to eat and which it is not okay to eat.
even among animals we eat, there are clearly differences. denying this doesn't serve anyone.
In parts of Africa, monkeys are eaten. In parts of Asia, dog is eaten.
Cat is generally not eaten in most cultures outside of spiritual and crisis contexts because it's stringy, apparently.
Our tradition of not eating certain animals is just that - tradition. It's not anything deeper, and certainly not universal.
this has nothing to do with whether there is a difference between dogs and cows, which there clearly is.
this appears to be an appeal to ridicule.
Your point about being housebroken was shown to be wrong. Your point about fetch was shown to be wrong. No one is saying a cow is a dog. You are being deliberately obtuse to avoid the unpleasant idea that cows are just as sentient and loving as many dogs (most dog breeds are smarter than cows but some breeds are stupid). But for cultural reasons we don't eat dogs.
I'm not vegan either but I recognize the horror.
so you know they are not the same
They are the same in the ways that are relevant to this argument. Some dogs aren't housebroken. Some dogs you can't play fetch with. Do you eat those dogs?
i didnt suggest eating any animal is ok. I'm pointing out that is simply untrue to claim there isn't a lick of difference between cows and dogs
There's a difference between different dogs too. You write like all dogs are the same. Again not all dogs play fetch or are housebroken.
picks up goal post and moves it still sounds like a dumbass
https://youtu.be/Sx-CxuAeVPo
Cows can be housebroken.
so I have learned