this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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well I have an acct there too. since I am, in all actuality, much a lefty. my initial reply was in good faith because I believe folks need to come with links not rhetoric, and now that I have them, (it was in another reply), I can take them back over the wall.
I’m a socialist. I largely stopped going there when they decided anything other than the prevailing view of the admins is racism. Can’t have a meaningful discussion there, wrongthink comments get nuked.
I suspect you’ll get plastered with some label and put in timeout if you attempt to pierce their bubble at all.
yeah. i reckon so. anarchist socialist here too.
Right on. It’s usually pretty telling when they’re asked about their thoughts on the Kronstadt Rebellion. Vanguard socialism is fucking bunk, imo
the original burden of truth rests with those making claims… there was never any evidence that ukraine had a nazi problem, so why should we or they have to prove a negative before the original claimants provide any evidence at all?
“just asking questions” isn’t “just” it’s also repeating an idea, which absolutely is helping that idea remain and spread… by “just asking questions” that have been asked for years and years and years with no evidence to support the questions, it becomes entirely propaganda
see also: the bullshit asymmetry principle
i wanted evidence the nazi prop was false. my original question had “that patch is nazi” as an idea to prove was false. sheesh. read the whole idea.
and my point was related to the bullshit principal- there MUST be a cohort of links debunking the claims.
okay and i want evidence that it’s true before spending time and energy debunking something that is just a wild claim presented without sources
the burden of proof is on the claim not the defendant
that’s absolutely not related to the bullshit asymmetry principal other than it being a prime example of it: it takes minimal effort to write a post asking for evidence - sincere or not, btw, there’s no way to know if you’re acting in good or bad faith - whilst it takes a lot of effort to do a web search by comparison, which you could also spend time and energy doing
if you provide evidence pointing to the fact that ukraine has nazis, then that does 2 things:
assuming you don’t believe the ukrainian govt has a nazi problem, this is also a core part of the scientific method: don’t try and prove what you believe; try and disprove it and if you can’t then what you believe is correct… dig up any real evidence for the claim, and if you can’t find real evidence then it’s nothing more than putin making a claim for unknown reasons when he clearly has an agenda
we know it’s not true. why are you so triggered i asked for shareable links that show examples of PATCHES and sigils being not nazi and other prop being false? I was given links and they were great!
Share the actual truths and that will outweigh the agitprop.
It's seriously insane how hard people are working to misinterpret you, there's no way people other than op are approaching this in good faith. You made it clear you're not a tankie, these people just can't stand the idea that their beliefs require proof or that there are people who aren't swayed by rhetoric alone (edit I def thought this was a tankie comment at first, that's how it sounded at first but you've made it abundantly clear that's not what it is)
"You're trying to prove a negative, they should just realize that" "they should just" is a pointless take to have on anything. people will never "just", they need convincing, and different people are convinced by different things. It's a tough subject to research, you've got one side claiming they're all nazis that deserve to be conquered and another that thinks they're all saints and can do no wrong, and I don't blame people at all for wanting evidence that the very real nazi groups in Ukraine aren't representative of everyone there, or even the whole military
thank you.