this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2025
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2meirl4meirl
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i'd love that. discussions are great.
just as a game of thought i'd like to point to hans rosling real quick here!
are you for a more or less fair/just world?
how many ppl on this planet have access to a washing machine?
are you willing to give up your washing machine now that you know there are not enough resources for a washing machine for every human and you wanting a fair world?
i do not take yes for an answer here as extensive studies show not even the left in the west that owns a washing machine would be willing to live without one.
still making up shit like sharing a washing machine? just wait until your find out about cars or fridges.
what i am trying to say is that i doubt the discussion can and will take place. your suggested topics would be nice...but ppl.
This is a strawman, or... something similar. No one who wants a more just world is proposing that we get there by reducing the quality of life for large segments of the world's population.
A more reasonable allegory would be "are you willing to make it so that no one can own a yacht, so that everyone can own a washing machine?"
Because we absolutely do have the resources to get everyone a washing machine, they're just not evenly distributed.
As this'll track with reality too, because the people who would say "no" are the people who own yachts and, yeah...those people are the reason we don't have a more just world.
we dont. read factfulness by hans rosling. we do not.
A quick search led me to an estimate of 1.5 billion washing machines in existence in 2018, which works out to one for every 5 or 6 people.
I live in a small apartment building with 6 residents and one washing machine. So here I am, in the developed and privileged West, living under global average washing machine conditions.
I remain convinced that the problem is not scarcity, but inequality.
The thing is with something like a yacht in your example, that producing one creates a lot of work. Not saying that we shouldn't make it impossibile, just maybe make it so you can't use it as a tax write off. I know that's what we did in NL.
Edit: people working in a business making yachts wouldn't want a rule that would disallow people to own yachts since they would be out of a job and generally people vote for their own interests first.
Sure but if you re-allocating all of the resources that went into the yacht, that includes labor, the jobs. I haven't suggested doing less stuff, I've suggested doing the same amount of stuff, but distributing it equitably.
Yeah that is fair, but I am not sure that it is really a resource issue. World wide we produce enough food, shelter, medicine etc. That's also where social security and things like the EU are for. There are just a bunch of priks who ruin it for everybody else and at the same time there are a lot of people who choice to buy from Amazon instead of something locally.
There is also the issue that people like to work on building a yacht, I am pretty sure.
Yeah, there's enough stuff to go around, but some people are hoarding it, in general.
I'm sure some people like building yachts, and luxury cars, extravagant jewelry, etc., but those industries are so tiny compared to the ones that serve regular people.
Whatever might be lost in terms of cool jobs making fancy things could be made up for so many times over, in an equitable society, for example by allowing people to work less hours and afford the same standard of living, making more free time for hobbies and other fulfilling activities.
Misinformation
Bruh thinks that the people so poor they dont even have access to clean water and safe living conditions have washing machines and fridges. lol
I'd like to think that I would give up my laundry machine, but probably not without some major rebalancing of life and work expectations.
If I was told that I could work 20hrs/week, but I had to give up my washing machine, I'd probably take that trade.
Going back to the questions, those were just some examples, depending on how far along in the discussion we are. Perhaps the right question to discuss next is something along the lines of: "What would it take for people to start having these discussions, and what can we do to achieve them?"
agreed.
It would help if some countries (like the US) would have more options for people to vote on and have it so people can make themselves voteable more easily. Not saying that you should go to the route we in NL have, but it would help to have more countries be compromised focussed.
The answer to those questions is yes and you can go fuck yourself for assuming otherwise. Projection much?
Here is the major flaws in your argument and those studies. You frame the argument to imply that people would have to "live without a one" yet fail to understand that no one ever said you had to go without. You have just as much access to a washing machine as anyone else. So the very premise of your argument is made in bad faith.
Secondly, there are alternatives to cars. Ever heard of a bus? Trains? Walkable urban design that existed for all of human history before the advent of car-centric culture?
Fridges, why would you need a fridge if you could walk down to the local grocer and just grab what you need because your city has been redesigned with walkability in mind to ensure your necessities are never more than a 15 minute bike ride away?
What you're trying to say is a load of bullshit that makes a lot of ill informed assumptions about people alongside a complete misunderstanding of different structures of ownership and how they would function.
Our current, hyper-individualist culture is an incredibly new phenomenon and only exists as a result of the system we live under. Do you also think it is in a bear's nature to ride a unicycle just because you've only ever seen them perform in a circus?
LOL