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"Pope" Francis Dies at Age 88 (hilariouschaos.com)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Considered by a growing minority as a non-Catholic antipope who continued the "Vatican 2" revolt against Catholicism, the late "Francis" in our view continually pushed heterodox ideology at odds with traditional Catholic belief and practice.

While I do not necessarily agree with the all these critiques of him or how they're delivered, here's a laundry list of articles that viewed him in the most negative light, from a "traditional Catholic" (sedevacantist) perspective: https://novusordowatch.org/francis/

It would be nice to see at this point before a new "pope" is elected to continue the confusion, of there being a global rejection of Vatican 2's "reforms" and of there then being a conclave to elect an unquestionably Catholic pope.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

this is a common objection, although there are clear differences

Francis for example had said, "Nowadays, Lutherans and Catholics, and all Protestants, are in agreement on the doctrine of justification: on this very important point he was not mistaken.": https://onepeterfive.com/recant-lutheran-heresy-francis/

By this logic, it wouldn't matter if a person is Catholic or protestant to be "justified". Ergo it seems Francis would be the one in error and leading people in to error, more like the protestants than the sedevacantists

However, I think ordinarily these conversations become more unproductively antagonistic as they are part of temporary confusing conflicts. To me it seems clear the current papal lineage is invalid, and all those who claim to be Catholic ideally need to come to agreement about this, and then elect a pope that is actually valid. We are living in the temporary period of confusion leading up to this future moment of clarity.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Let’s look at some of the Lutheran tenets shared by this Declaration.

In §3, The Common Understanding of Justification, we read, no. 15: “Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works” [3].

Same paragraph, no. 17: it is jointly declared that “God’s saving action in Christ tells us that as sinners our new life is solely due to the forgiving and renewing mercy that God imparts as a gift and we receive in faith, and never can merit in any way” [4].

Finally, there is §4.1, Human Powerlessness and Sin in Relation to Justification, no. 19, where it is jointly stated, as if it were absolutely obvious to us Catholics, that “[j]ustification takes place solely by God’s grace” [5].

This is all stuff from St Paul, though.

Romans 5:15-16

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The basic Catholic / Lutheran (protestant) rift was: Catholics believe faith and works justify, protestants believe "faith alone" justifies. Ergo saying Luther is correct on justification seems to logically imply no need for works for salvation which is contrary to Catholic teaching.

And actually a lot of "evangelicals" according to recent polls (2017) do seem to believe salvation is by faith and works (even though this is traditionally associated with Catholicism): https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2017/08/31/poll-most-protestants-and-catholics-believe-faith-and-works-are-necessary

At the very least, it would be important for "Francis" to make sure this distinction is upheld and to affirm Luther was justly excommunicated for heresy. The continued acts of "Francis" show he is clearly trying to bend or deny this distinction. He hasn't done something like this once, but literally dozens of times, for example this defunct site lists some questionable statements made: https://web.archive.org/web/20200115152651/http://www.francisquotes.com/

Y / N ?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

It is semantics in the end. Protestants believe that Faith produces good works. So in both scenarios, a saved person is one who is doing good works. It's just the mentality is different.