this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2025
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So, I’ve also ridden a wide range of bikes and prices. $11k Wilier Granturismo is 100% more comfortable than Canyon Endurace (at least the CF SL Di2 I use to ride) and the Dogma I rode in Italy was oddly more comfortable than the Canyon (but I don’t own the Dogma, just rented for a few months). The Canyon was 100% more comfortable than the Trek domaine (entry level).
As for speed, high end bikes have more carbon components than a $4-6k bike, so naturally when you ride a lighter bike you’ll increase your speed to a point. But yes, the thing that makes you faster is you and not necessarily the bike, but having a bike that’s lighter sure does help.
I’m not totally disagreeing with you btw, I think if I could start all over again I would get fitted, buy a carbon frame + fork + saddle post, Ultegra Di2, carbon wheels and handlebar, like $150 saddle, and I’ll be set. Probably cost around $6-8k, and if I went used I could probably get it for $4k.
At the same time, why do people buy a BMW? A car just gets you from point A to point B, why would you spend significantly more when a Honda is more economical and reliable? My point is, people can spend their money how they want and that’s okay. $11k got me the perfect bike and there’s nothing I would change about it and I’ll have it for the rest of my life. It’s just odd to me that people get so abrasive (not you, just in general) about the cost of high end bikes, but a $120k car or truck that’s used to go to the grocery store, nobody bats an eye.
Appreciate the conversation, and I definitely bat an eye at the overpriced mall crawlers people blow absurd amounts of money on to get groceries. I actually do think a $50k car is generally a bit nicer than a 20k car, so in my analogy that could maybe be justified, but $120k is getting a bit silly with marginal gains that are not meaningful (to me at least).
But back to bikes, curious of you're actually able to compare these bikes you mentioned apples to apples. Same geometry, saddle, tires, grip tape, etc? If it's frame compliance you're after, I'm curious for your thoughts on some of the higher end steel frames out there. I ride mostly gravel and am large, so e.g long setback seatposts and 45mm tires soak up everything to the point that frame compliance matters less (but still some of course). I could see that being a bigger deal for smaller/lighter riders though. On the other end of the spectrum for trail bikes the frame just needs to be stiff, so I see zero benefit to carbon there (outside weight of course, but thankfully people learned to care less about weight in the MTB world finally). Back to road I'd also argue aero matters more than those last few grams for just about everything outside of massive climbs. I recall hearing that on any road below 7-8%, aero is still "more important" than weight, meaning you should spend your money there instead. Who knows though, every few years there's a new trend and every few years I find I value comfort over speed even more.
I just love riding bikes and I spend way too much time learning about tech I have very little desire to actually buy. I'm glad you found a bike you're super stoked to ride, that's what that matters at the end of the day!
The Wilier and Canyon are both endurance bikes vs the Pino which is a performance/race. Wilier is still the most comfortable and fast af, but you’re right in that the Canyon was mid-level and has a very different geo so it’s kinda hard to compare-ish. I was actually really surprised at how comfortable the Pino Dogma felt, that would be my go to for races if I owned it.
I actually haven’t ridden any high quality Ti bikes yet, but have heard nothing but great reviews. I’m actually looking at a few companies: No.22, Moots, Seven, and a couple other ti + carbon hybrid. No.22 came out with this new performance bike that they 3D print with very high quality Ti and it’s like $12-15k. You should check out those brands I mentioned, they each have their own custom Ti + Carbon Gravel (or full Ti) builds and it’s not going to hurt the bank account too much (I think $6-8k full build). A couple of friends that ride gravel swear by these hybrid type builds for the exact reasons you mentioned.