this post was submitted on 06 Apr 2025
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It's not a hate crime if the intent isn't driven by hate. Just because Pam Bondi says it is, doesn't mean any Judge anywhere will accept a plea or sentence accordingly lolz.
Just like murder charges, intent needs to be proven, and just reminding people of what they are supporting is not intent of a hate crime.
So let me get this straight, and I wanna be very very clear: Are you saying that spraypainting or carving a swastika onto someone else's property is NOT a hate crime?!
OMG Lemmy is reaching a new low...wow
Nazi's do that, bro.
Please give a great answer, because I am gonna screencap your answer and username and use it all over Lemmy.
Nazi's do that shit proudly and don't get prosecuted for it because as horrific as it is, it's still protected by free speech in this country while we still have it. Let's be SUPER clear here as well, because Nazi's around the world are only supporting Donald Trump, not other party's in the US. Just wanted to clear that up.
Spray painting a Swastika on a Jewish place of worship with the intent of terrorizing them would be prosecuted as a hate crime.
Spray painting a Swastika on some Nazi HQ building to call attention to it would not be a hate crime.
Context matters in our court system.
The Nazis supporter Joe Biden.
I know. I am seeing them do it on Teslas around the country right now in the news. And Lemmy is celebrating it. Seems the the Democrats true colors are coming out: they are nazis and fascists.
Not when you're vandalizing other people's property. Here, let me spray paint "Democrat Party Sucks" on your car and let's have a discussion about if that's protected by free speech.
Yep, as the "protesters" are gonna find out. lmao
You're making idiotic logic jumps just justify your puny view of the law. Let me make child-like in its simplicity so you can grasp these concepts:
Vandalism + Free Speech != Hate Crime
Because you foolishly follow all the idiotic things Pam Bondi says to try and protect Elon's feelings doesn't mean its the law. Nobody is saying spray painting cars ISN'T a fucking crime, you just want to go that route to make your other points seems less dumb. A Swastika itself is not a hate crime unless it's deployed AS part of a hate crime.
Donald Trump having people tortured because they are LEGAL US Residents but are not HA-WYTE on the other hand is for sure a hate crime because it's motivated completely based on race as the law sees it. It's quite transparent, and even children understand the difference between vandalism and hate crimes.
Get it now?
You think vandalism is free speech?! Good luck with that in the courts. lmao
Wow, you are NOT very bright, or you have reading comprehension issues. My unedited post says right there, chum.
K! And good luck to the caught vandals when they go to court and claim "free speech!" lmao
Again...you seem to be mistaken about this concept, but nobody is saying that VANDALISM isn't a crime. Where in the hell are you NOT getting this? I am absolutely so confounded.
So then people marking up Teslas and carving and spray painting nazi imagary is a crime. Correct?
Vandalism IS a crime. It is NOT a Hate Crime. They are prosecuted and sentenced radically differently, which is why Pam Bondi is an absolute moron for trying to re-classify it as such.
Judges still have classifications, prosecutorial guidelines and sentencing guidelines on the books to follow, and they can't just willy-nilly change those at her discretion. That's not how the law works, thank god.
The same way you can't prosecute Petty Theft as Murder, you can't suddenly decide vandalism of a car is any thing but vandalism of a car, especially escalating the brand based on your own bias.
painting a swastika on someones property is a hate crime. So is Lemmy pro-Nazi now?!
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=%2Fprelim%40title34%2Fsubtitle3%2Fchapter305&edition=prelim
https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2018-guidelines-manual/2018-chapter-3
Therefore, painting a Swastika as a symbol of hate on a Jewish person's car with the knowledge that they were Jewish, and with the intent of instilling fear in them for being Jewish could be classified as a hate crime.
Doing the same to Tesla cars because Elon Musk is aligned with neo-nazi groups and did multiple Sig Heil salutes in public to big crowds of people doesn't strike the same way. The defense to that being protected free speech.
You see why it's still vandalism, but a long walk to prosecuting as a Hate Crime if no intent or bias can be proven. Bias against Tesla vehicles and people supporting a known neo-nazi sympathizer is kind of a HUGE defense. This is how due process works.
Now, the antithesis to this is what Pam Bondi trying to force down everyone's throat to stem the image destruction of Tesla by saying that hating Tesla owners is now a hate crime. So she's saying that hating neo-nazi's is a Hate Crime. Judges aren't going to go for that because the bar for intent and bias is still necessary according to the very clear legal requirements.
She just wants people to be afraid of hating on Tesla, essentially.
So I hope that makes it more clear.
Also, very few of the cars being vandalized had anything to do with Swastika as a symbol anyway, I think that's just the extreme. It's not something I would have done because of the above, and kids would see that shit. The people doing that are just stupid and potentially causing more harm than whatever good they may have intended.
And one of the drivers was Jewish. You're "intent" argument doens't hold water. Because anyone could say, "Oh, well I didn't INTEND to cause harm. It's just an indian symbol, not one of nazi's. I didn't even know the person was Jewish."
Lemmy needs to condemn nazi symbols, intent or not. If a bunch of republicans where painting nazi symbols on cars, you all would be up in arms. This is the same fucking thing.
I'll be sure to keep this conversation on hand to show people that you don't condemn nazi symbols. :)
It's not MY "intent" argument, this is how the law works whether you like it or not. It's not by action to the max degree of punishment. That's why there are degrees of severity on charges.
There isn't a blanket murder charge. There isn't a blanket drug charge. You may watch TV shows where they say something like "Possession with the INTENT to distribute"? That's because there's a clear intent to the crime that has harsher punishments based on the degree.
This is also why there are manslaughter charges. You can harm someone by accident and catch a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, though if you INTENDED to harm someone, that's 1st degree manslaughter. They have different prosecutorial and sentencing guidelines based on the intent of the crime.
If a person goes through a Tesla dealership and paints Swastikas on 100 cars, they have an obvious argument that it wasn't a hate crime, they were intending to point out that a neo-nazi is running Tesla. That's not a hate crime because of the intent.
So if Pam Bondi can prove that the person who spray painted a Swastika on a specific Tesla owned by a specific Jewish person, THEN you'd have the argument that a Hate Crime has been committed.
You're also selectively reading my messages and saying I'm somehow okay with hate crimes. This is classic dipshittery and whataboutism in its dumbest form. Never said anything like that. I am explaining the law to you in a very child-like way (like people don't Trump), because you're failing to understand the difference between what is protected by free speech and hate crimes laws, and what is not. The subject matter you brought up was Swastika vandalism.
I'm not even advocating FOR vandalism of Tesla at all, I even said it was stupid, and not the right way to go about it. Pocketbook is a better target.
No their intent to show they are Nazis. That’s why they draw the swastika. It isn’t free speech to draw a swastika on a Jews Tesla. That’s a crime.
Want to edit your comment for grammar and to make sense?
It makes perfect sense
https://www.timesofisrael.com/chicago-jewish-man-finds-swastika-protest-against-elon-musk-on-his-tesla/amp/
You mixed up your accounts.
?
Let's see if the courts agree with you then. And it's noted that you seem to think painting a swasttika on something isn't a hate crime. lol
Funny how Lemmy pretends to be all anti-nazi unless some of their own start spray painting swastikas on shit. lol
Actually I'm beginning to think you may be a nazi since you're defending that shit.
What does Lemmy say? Oh something like "if you defend nazi shit, then you are a nazi shit."
I learned it from Lemmy. So you can thank Lemmy for my opinion of you. :)
The same way Elon Musk is allowed to walk around and throw around Nazi salutes and spout the "benefits" of racial seperatism like the piece of shit he is, is the same way people are allowed to appropriate symbols of hate in their freedom of expression.
As I've previously said, I don't particularly like that, but that's free speech, and it's covered by the constitution. Once you start whittling that down, shit gets messy, so it's all or nothing.
As the saying goes: "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It"
That's freedom of speech and expression. Take the good with the bad, or be done with the whole thing. Trump wants to do the latter, and I'll take the former with my dying breath.
I thought you said it was all about "intent" though? Cuz he says he didn't intend for that to be a nazi salute.
Lemmy told me that if you defend a nazi thing, then you are a nazi thing. So, sorry man, I gotta put on you the list. It's ok, Lemmy thinks it should be that way. I'm sure you understand.
Don’t attack the person
Random upvotes? What world do you live in where you think us republicans are getting random upvotes on Lemmy by posting conservative articles?! lmao
Along with the Adl and leader of Israel. It’s weird how all the anti-Semitic left want to call Elon a Nazi while they want to genocide the Jews. It’s weird as fuck
Yeah, the nazi leanings I am getting from Democrats lately is sick to watch. It's almost as if they are throwing the Nazi word around so much just to hide their true nature.
They have their brown shirts (antifa), they attack Jewish people and their businesses, they love to classify people by race and gender, disloyalty from group think is punished. I mean the list goes on and on.
Yep. They're pretty terrible.
They drew a swastika on a Jewish persons Tesla. That sounds like a hate crime to me.
Exactly! It's so sick how hateful some people are.
What I find weird is they draw a swastika, say to the river to the sea then say republicans are Nazis. lol. That’s so weird shit
Very weird. They are the true Nazis and they are just trying to fool everyone. It's sick.