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Is that not enough? You prefer Trump to not-Trump?
Clearly it isn't enough, because they lost to him twice.
Ok fair. I guess the better question is, shouldn't that be enough?
It was enough for me. It was not enough for people who heard one guy talking about issues that mattered to them (albeit by offering bullshit solutions that don't actually address the problems) and another saying "well, we aren't that guy and everything is getting better" when people felt like it wasn't getting better for them. There was not enough of a positive platform presented for progressives to support and too much targeting of Republicans that don't like Trump. They obviously targeted the wrong audience.
No. It shouldn't.
You'd rather have Trump than not-Trump?
You'd rather have trump than a progressive.
Stop following me.
Block me if you don't like your talking points being challenged.
Blocking someone doesn't shut them up. It's just plugging your own ears.
Ordering people to doesn't either.
If you assume American voters are rational and educated then, yes, it should be enough.
But you know what they say about making assumptions: It makes an ass out of U and gets a fascist elected.
Yep. Our voting population is as dumb as always and more susceptible to propaganda than ever.
People are tired of this shit. Democrats have been running on this for 20 years at this point. We're at the point where people would rather see Trump dismantle the entire federal government than vote for one more Democrat promising, that this time, they actually will make meaningful change.
People are just done with this. Democrats have repeatedly failed to make government work for people. If government won't work for people, why would people care if Trump's going to come in and tear everything down?
That's like presenting only the options of slavery or indentured servitude and asking "you prefer slavery to indentured servitude?" Neither are acceptable. Before you say "well those are the options we've got" think about who are making these the only options.
The system itself is only able to give you two options. It's not an evil conspiracy, it's a Prisoner's Dilemma. If Democratic states, and Democratic states alone, eliminated first-past-the-post...we would be under permanent Republican rule. It's political suicide.
pardon the micro issue but I think you mean credible instead of credulous. only trying to help, not criticize.
There's no one else. You're picking between Trump and not-Trump. No other options. Which one is better?
If the answer isn't obvious, welcome to the Republican Party.
So you'd be cool with President Vance?
Not really "cool with it" but I'd prefer him to Trump.
And that's the problem with liberals. The bar is so low it's in Hell.
Again, blame liberals for the atrocities of Republicans. Why is the bar in hell? Because Republicans have dragged us down there.
That is a dismally low bar which Biden tripped over and Kamala could hardly clear. It obviously wasn’t enough.
Nonsensical. Circular reasoning. Why did Harris fail? Because she didn't meet the low bar. How didn't she meet the low bar? Because she failed.
@Cryophilia @crusa187 Harris failed because given the choice <%1% of Democrats would choose her as their candidate in an open, competitive primary. When she ran for the nomination in 2020 she got less than 1k votes nationwide, among female candidates she was 5th, and when Biden announced that he wanted a black woman VP, the logical choice was Stacy Abrams, not Harris.
Harris is a deeply flawed candidate who doesn't appeal to really any single group except maybe cops. And cops always vote Republican.
On top of that, without a primary, she lacked a fresh bench of exciting Democrats to recruit to campaign and join her staff (think of the way Buttigieg was an effective campaigner in the Rust Belt for Biden) and she didn't have a competent campaign staff who knew her as a candidate and had just figured out how to be a national candidate.
The DNC failed this election by not holding primaries for a Candidate that was clearly mentally compromised. And it cost them the election. If you replace Trump with "Generic Republican" it would have been a Reagan '84 level bloodbath.
I'm not going to argue about any of that because even in the worst case where all of that is true it's still ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE BETTER THAN TRUMP.
@Cryophilia I agree with you, that's why I voted for Harris, even though there are multitudes of major politicians I would support before her. But if elections were just about what was objectively best almost no elected officials would be in office. You have to at least attempt to play the game of politics and the DNC has flatly refused to do so the last three elections (and lost two of them).
This is the time to discuss that. There's a non-zero chance that the DNC tries to anoint someone like Tim Kaine like $insult to the nomination and then they loose to some Diet Trump person. And I really don't think waiting until 2032 to fix what's being broken today is a good plan.
At least we've moved away from "I'm a proudly stupid voter" to "unfortunately, we have to cater to the stupid ones". That's progress. I can work with that.
I voted for harris, but didn't love her positions. Am I one of the "stupid ones"?
Depends on which positions, I guess
I didn't love the genocide support like you do.
Anything else?
You always intended to immediately dismiss anything I was going to say. Waste someone else's time with your pro-genocide bad faith.
No, it's a legit question
If your sole disagreement with her is the genocide support, you're not one of the stupid ones.
It's not my sole disagreement with her, but it's the most glaring. Her indication that she wouldn't do anything differently than biden was bad enough, and then she moved to his right by vowing to appoint a republican to her cabinet. The cheney endorsements were also a horrible idea.
Do not make what you said about it being a legit question a lie. I answered truthfully, but I have grown to expect bad faith and abuse from you under all circumstances.
There's the bad faith and abuse I expected.
There's the mod abuse I expected
The mods aren't abusing you by enforcing their rules.
Just by selectively enforcing them.
If I called you a russian, I would expect the comment wouldn't stay up very long either. The rules are very clear on this particular issue and I credit the mods for its consistent enforcement. This isn't reddit.
lol
Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line.
In other words: Republicans will consistently vote for anyone with an R. Democrats need to be convinced to vote for their candidate.
I don't think so. In 2016, while the DNC kept their thumb on the scale for Clinton, the RNC saw voters actually turning out for Trump and let them do it. I remember getting the vibe that they weren't happy with it, that they really preferred Jeb Bush or some other long standing party man, but at least when their voters spoke up, the Republicans didn't try to fight them. The shrugged and went, "well, alright".
Had they put their thumb on the scale for a boring establishment candidate like Jeb or Kasich, it seems to me that Hillary's chances would have been much better if only for the fact that a lot of unexcited Republicans would have stayed home on election night. I've never voted for a Republican, I've been hearing "it's the most important election ever, you're just going to have to compromise and try to get what you want next time" since 2012. I've reliably turned out and voted for the democrats in every election except 2020 [Voted for Jorgensen. Relax, I'm in California, I knew the state would go for Biden, I was just hoping to try and get another party a seat at the table by giving them a bigger slice of the popular vote]. I'm tired of voting for the lesser evil, boss. I'm ready to vote FOR something again.
democrats know this. They keep giving us candidates that only the corporate/genocide wing of the party loves and ordering everyone else to fall in line.