this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
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They weren't under Russian control. What actually happened was that the west was not ok with Ukraine being independent and instigated a coup there. Incredible how trolls now twist this to be backwards.
By independent, you mean controlled by the same oligarchic system as the Russian federation?
While you are correct that Russia really didn't need the minerals in Ukraine, they did want to maintain relations with the oligarchs that controlled the majority of Ukraine wealth. They especially wanted to maintain relations with the oligarchs like Akhmetov, Kolomoisky, Pinchuk, and Firtash. Who were responsible for mediating Russian gas sales to Ukraine.
Of course the US has their fingers in geopolitics around the globe, but giving them credit for the revolution in 2014 is a bit generous imo. I mean, when is the last time America did anything at this scale with any kind of competency?
In reality this is the reason for the revolution. It's also the same reason why America's billionaire president is now supporting Russia. The ultra wealthy have long craved the control Russia's oligarchy has over the state.
As opposed to the oligarchic system in the west?
Russia wanting to maintain economic relations with Ukraine isn't the conspiracy theory you seem to think it is.
The credit goes to the US and it's pretty well documented at this point https://kitklarenberg.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-a-coup-how-cia-front-laid
In reality, the reason for the coup is that certain oligarchs in Ukraine decided to throw their lot with the US. The US will now get a return on their investment when they take over whatever resources left in Ukraine that Russia doesn't take.
Did I deny that the west had its own oligarchic system? No, it wasn't pertinent because we were talking about Ukraine prior to 2014.
Your claim was that Ukraine was "independent", when in reality the majority of the wealth was held by Ukrainian oligarchs with deep ties to Russian capital.
Russia wanting to maintain control of Ukrainians politics through the wealth of their oligarchs is literally a conspiracy. I'd say it's a lot more influential than a US backed org like freedom radio or what have you.
Ahh, yes... The national endowment fund..... So powerful they could take over the government by funding..... Independent Journalism?
Surely having a few people control 80% of the countrys wealth has nothing to do with people being upset at the status quo..
Yeah, because that worked out for them....
Thanks for confirming that you didn't have any actual point to make here.
It was independent in a sense of having sovereign domestic policy which it lost after the coup by the west. If Ukraine was allowed to stay independent then the war would not have happened.
We've already established that it's actually that the west that wants to maintain control over Ukrainian politics as was evidenced by the west overthrowing the government in Ukraine. The fact that you're unable to acknowledge this basic fact shows that you lack even a shred of intellectual integrity.
Literally that org that is known for doing regime change around the world. You should do an AMA on what it's like to walk around in those clown shoes of yours.
People doing things that backfire on them isn't uncommon. The whole western proxy war is backfiring right now as well.
Being purposely obtuse is not a rebuttal....
Just because the people of Ukraine overthrew a government that was being controlled by the benefactors of Russian capital for a government controlled by people who want to take loans from the US and Western Europe does not mean there was a "coup by the west".
Not surprisingly you are stripping any sense of autonomy from the people of Ukraine. Could it be that the people of Ukraine were just tired of being the poorest nation in Europe despite their size, agricultural output, and mineral wealth?
Meaning if Ukraine had continued to be controlled by oligarchs loyal to Russia, Russia wouldn't have had to invade. Sure.
I don't think posting the substack of an author who works for the Russian media is really enough to establish anything. The guy is clearly not a reliable narrator, and his "evidence" is hardly sufficient to validate his claims.
Lol, the pot calling the kettle black.
Every powerful nation in the world has lobbying groups of a similar order. Saying that they are solely responsible for regime change all over the world is just reductionist and ignores the autonomy of the people in those nations.
So America is so powerful they can overthrow a nation with a ngo, but so weak they can't capitalize on it...... curious.
Seems like you made a self referential statement there. My rebuttal was very clear. There's no fundamental difference between Russian and western oligarchs having influence over Ukraine.
Yeah, that's not what happened. Fascist extremists backed by the west overthrew the government. Claiming that these people represent majority of Ukrainians is the height of intellectual dishonesty.
Not surprisingly, you're once again making statements at odds with the basic facts of the situation.
It's wasn't, but I guess you'll just keep repeating this like baby Goebbels.
You could've just stopped at I don't think without having to qualify that. The substack points to plenty of sources to substantiate the argument. The fact that you ignored once again highlights that you're not arguing in good faith.
Nobody said they're solely responsible for regime change. That's just a straw man you made instead of engaging with the actual argument that they were responsible for this particular regime change. Try to put more effort into your trolling to make it less transparent at least.
Except that the US is capitalizing on it and has done so since 2014. Maybe learn a bit about the subject you're attempting to debate as not to make a clown of yourself in public.
That's a non sequitur from the discussion we were talking about.
I guess it's inarguable since you said it with such conviction.....
"As for the conflict itself, over 50% sided with the protesters and volunteers. More than half of the respondents discountenanced the authorities and pro-government anti-Maidan protesters. The main adversary of the Euromaidan was Viktor Yanukovych and his closest allies, 71% of the pollees believe."
It's fairly unanimous that the protest were mainly against Viktor Yanukovych.
Wow, such a good argument. How can anyone compete with the sophisticated rebuttal of "not uh".
Hmmm.... I can't refute this fact, I guess I'll just call anyone who disagrees with me a Nazi. Big brain move.
First of all, half of the links in that substack are dead. Secondly, just because you claim a piece of evidence substanciates your argument doesn't make it true. Having a link saying 6 people from America went and observed an election, doesn't mean they were part of an overall conspiracy to overthrow a country. Especially considering the people in that country attribute the actual rebellion as a response to Yanukovych sicking the police on a peaceful protest.
I'm not attacking the "evidence" in the substack, I'm attacking the overall narrative that run counter to reality.
You haven't offered any other reasoning.....
Lol, anytime anyone disagrees with you it's trolling.
By taking away the wealth of the oligarchs who supposedly handed over power to the US in the first place? Sure.
Man, you really are just a broken record. What is your obsession with clowns?
Why is it that all Russian nationalist argue in the same exact way?
You should really learn what non sequitur means if you insist on using it.
And provided you with a sourced reference detailing the situation. But hey why acknowledge that when you can just spew more bullshit?
Protests by whom?
Literally just described your side of the thread here haven't you.
Nope, just people who spew nonsense as a form of argument.
Last I checked Blackrock owns large chunks of Ukraine now, but do go on.
I could ask you why liberal trolls all have the same script too.
Lol, not even trying anymore. That's cool, projection is a helluva drug.
Yes, everyone who is critical of a pretend campist is a liberal..... At least you're not even denying that you're just a Russian nationalist.
Have a good one
cya
Ah yes, well documented facts are RuSsIAn ProPaGandad. Brains as smooth as bowling balls around here.