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Sheryl Crow says goodbye to her Tesla and donates to NPR: 'You have to decide who you are willing to align with'
(www.businessinsider.com)
this post was submitted on 15 Feb 2025
1146 points (98.4% liked)
politics
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Who would buy a Tesla now, especially a used one.
For the MAGA heads who still like Musk, a Tesla does not roll coal enough. For those who would buy an EV, Tesla is a burned brand.
This binary view is neat and tidy but wrong. There are a lot of enthusiasts for whom a Tesla is still a desirable car both for capabilities as well as status. I would not be surprised to see its sales keep dropping, but reports of its death are all gonna be premature.
As far as a used Tesla, once we agree that a market for Teslas still exists, then that's all dependent on the price.
Partly true. Demand will persist but had already changed drastically. EV/fast car enthusiast niche now has much more exciting alternatives, like used porsche macans or BMW i4s. The people who don't care what they drive as long as its cheap is the future market of Tesla, and they'll easily survive the drop in their profit margins. After all, the Model 3/Y were designed to be <$30K cars (AFAIR they cost like $23K to make?!).
The first signs of Musk being a bit fraudulent is how he marketed "full self-driving" in the meantime, the transition to "vision-only" (i.e., removal of ultrasonic sensors) really sealed the fate of FSD but is also totally on brand for musk: the willingness to compromise safety further by removing sensor redundancy to maximize profits.
I know people like to harp on the self-driving promises, but the technology not fraud at all, except for the promises of how soon it will be self-driving. The early adopters especially must feel taken advantage of, paying for lifetime self driving that was only for as long as they owned the car and never appeared.
Anyhow, I still think it’s a valid approach to attempt. We don’t know what approach will succeed until one does, and Teslas approach does have advantages. Cameras are cheap sensors now, that can easily blend as part of a car, and humans do succeed in driving based only on sight. Now it’s a software problem - will we be able to create an ai that can drive? I don’t know, but I don’t see other approaches doing any better, and that’s with much more expensive and ugly hardware.
Until someone succeeds in creating a self-driving vehicle, I’m encouraged that we’re not all jumping into the same hole that may or may not succeed. Let them try something different, and we have a better chance of something working
We couldn't disagree more.:D
"FSD" almost got me into a major accident. It had a tendency to ride in cars' blind spots and when someone cut me off I didn't only make an evasive maneuver but also fight "FSD" which locked the steering and did not brake.
So the "idea of the technology" is not fraud, only the presentation, the selling, and the delivery of it. So like everything that is currently available:D
You know what else are cheap sensors. Actual sensors. FFS they had a >$20K profit margin on each car but they saved $100 on sensors
This is so disturbingly incorrect. We rely a LOT on our hearing, our vibration sense, our proprioception too. Have you tried driving with earplugs? It's pretty dangerous
It's a safety issue. For any safety-critical system you apply redundancy.
Mercedes and GM have much better autonomous driving systems than Tesla, they just don't market it as """FULL self-driving""". The fact that you're unaware shows how incredibly effective tesla's misleading marketing had been.
It will succeed, but eliminating safety measures in half-baked technology will claim lives. And nowhere did I say self-driving can't work, I'm saying that it won't work within the product's lifetime and eliminating redundant sensor data will make the process a lot more unsafe.
Again other companies are already ahead of tesla without the bullshitting involved.
That's a question, not a binary view. You've made a strawman attack, intended or not.
You're reframing a generalized one to many statement as a literal one to all statement. OP isn't attempting to claim that no one would possibly buy a Tesla, But that the primary sources of ownership in the market are both equally uninterested in purchasing.
There are obviously still people taking ownership of Cybertrucks even now.
Moving those goal posts on out there are we? You made a straw man that OP said 0 market, and now you're 'proving that argument you made wrong, and are going to slide out the argument you made yourself that there is a market therefore you're right.
What happens when the market for a given price fails to match the cost to produce something?
The only thing that will save the company in the medium term would be for him to divest from it and leave it alone, or funnel tax money from government contracts to keep it floating.
They are the most undesirable manufacturer in the US by a long shot right now.
reddit moment
We'll see, if he comes back and cherry pics a single argument. ;)
Yes please. I’m having a tough time with this because I still find Tesla by far the most compelling vehicle available to me, SpaceX dominates space travel as the future implemented now, and StarLink is desperately needed for all those people out of fiber coverage. There’s really no competition. I was even a Musk fan when he spoke of technologies at these visioneering companies and where they were headed.
But then people started hanging on his every word, every tweet a meme, every word worshipped, and I don’t know wtf happened to him, he left his lane, he left the pavement and jumped into a pit. Was he always this person and it took a while to become public, or did something happen with the idolizing, the hero worship, the obscene amount of money? I can’t support pretty much anything the guy has said for the last several years, I can’t support his actions since he got distracted from those technologies, I can’t contribute any more to his obscene wealth as long as he keeps using it to remake the world to exploit, divide and endanger.
If he divests from Tesla and they drop that robot nonsense, they can become a leading technology company again, a successful car manufacturer with rapid growth, and they’d be a leading contender when I have to replace my current car. As it is, I hope this vehicle lasts long enough for other vehicles to catch up with the technology
Mmm tasty tasty boots
Hmmm not sure, demnd has already dropped dramatically. As I understand it, vurrent sales levels would desimate the company, let alobe justify the hyper inflated stock
Any further drop in sales will just accelerte the crash
If it was within my budget I would buy a used Tesla. They're pretty decent cars. The idea that your car should communicate your values or identity is Bourgeois ideology that I fully reject.
When you look at the number of recalls they are doing, I wonder where your "pretty decent" rating comes from.
Idk I haven't been paying much attention I've only heard about the cyber truck specifically having issues
I mean I was talking about a used car sale, which doesn't financially contribute to the company. It bothers me that people object to simply owning a Tesla (not buying) to the point that they feel like they have to get rid of one they already have. This mentality speaks to a sickness of identity which ties ones indicators of belonging to a commercial brand. I am not even talking about consumer choices like whether to shop at Amazon. I am talking about publicly visible choices like clothing, cars, watches. To suggest that these should communicate ones political alignment or disalignment is to buy into the idea of brand as identity.
While I mostly agree, if you’re a wealthy celebrity, whose image is critical to your success, then yes. Make a statement.
My vehicle is what I found compelling at the time, regardless of the failings of the ceo. I have no public image to maintain, nor wealth to switch vehicles on Twitter time. I also don’t see why I should have to switch based on someone else’s protest. My vehicle is what it is, and I do really like it
Are they decent? They have a high failure rate and as a used vehicle you're likely going to need to drop 20k to replace the dying battery.
I don't know, that might be true. Certainly at some price it becomes a good deal.
Within the budget of a used Tesla Model 3 are a lot of better cars. Jaguar I-Pace, Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai EV5, etc. pp.
I guess it depends on how much used Tesla are going for. If enough people want to get rid of them the price should keep falling.
Maybe, but who are you to mandate someone else’s choices? Each is a set of pros and cons, and different ones will resonate with different people. There is no objective better for a subjective choice. I could go down a list of places those other choices lag, and I’m sure you’ll dismiss them as unimportant. It’s fine that you find them unimportant but what gives you the right to dictate to anyone else?
Please point out the section where I did.
Please do, that’s relevant info for people currently seeking to buy an EV.
99% of your text is you discussing against something I never wrote - Textbook straw man.