this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2026
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[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

With regard to the allies. The United States specifically. We've never had a healthy Reckoning with our past. They gave many Nazi scientists amnesty. And the fascist themselves were inspired by our own powerful racists and fascists. Who never felt repercussions who are why we are in the position we are in today.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

America has never dealt with our past. It took me way too long to realize we did in fact prosecute a genocide on American Indians. And I'm from the Indian Territories and learned about the Trail of Tears in elementary school. I can't think of knowing a single Native American in my whole life.

The thing with the Nazi scientists I can let slide, given the times. We knew our next enemy would be Russia and wanted a leg up. It was either take them under our wing or let the Soviets have 'em.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Don't feel too bad. As someone who was born into the tribe. Officially on tribal rolls. Received a settlement from the early '80s for treaties broken against our people over 100 years before. Attended a number of tribal cultural events as we tried to recover our heritage. Including my own naming ceremony. It didn't actually strike me until my late teens early twenties just what my grandmother was talking about when she spoke of Indian School.

Fortunately hers was not one of the ones you hear reported about sometimes in the northern United States and canada. But run by a different nearby tribe of the Wyandot. It was still about indoctrination and cultural Erasure to an extent. Just not the explicit tones of mass murder.

Sometimes it's Society hiding the skeletons in its closet. Other times it's parents just wanting their children to have something better and not to be focused and bitter on things that can't be changed. We couldn't have known ourselves. But just because some things didn't be changed doesn't mean others couldn't and shouldn't. Such as people's awareness of these things. The General public school education version that I got in the seventies and eighties was quite whitewashed and sterilized. And even then it was pretty bad.

The Nazi scientists however I couldn't get behind. Not because of any sympathies with Soviet Russia or the like. Just an aversion to the state. The state will always do what is easy. Rarely what is right. We had no business generally mucking around in the Cold War as we did. At best only a pyrrhic victory like Korea. Generally losing everywhere else and only increasing the death and destruction. In the end. It was the Soviets that brought themselves down. Not us or Reagan.

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You're from Oklahoma and don't know any natives? How is that even possible?

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's rather the point. The genocide was very complete.

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I grew up in Oklahoma and work in Oklahoma. I know nearly as many natives as I do anyone else.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Where would that be?! You near a reservation? Or are we talking about blonde-haired, blue-eyed "natives"? Because I've met plenty of those sorts.

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

NE Oklahoma, near the Missouri border.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Huh! I'm from Tulsa and mom lived in AR, 6 miles south of the MO border. Surprising!

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

We have 9 tribes just here in Ottawa county. There's nothing surprising about it.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And we have the Poarch Creek Indians here in NW Florida. I have yet to see an identifiable Indian, even at their own casino in Alabama. 1/512th Indian blood ain't Indian.

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And? You've heard of the Trail of Tears and the Indian Removal Act, yes? Where do you think the end of that trail was?

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We already established I'm from Oklahoma. We learned this as children in the 70s. And yet I have never known an Indian, not one that's remotely close to full-blooded anyway. Loads of tribes ended up there, but they've been genetically (mostly) wiped out.

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

they've been genetically (mostly) wiped out

That's just an ignorant lie.

You're pulling the same "they don't look like Indians to me" racist bullshit that Trump did.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I honestly don't get it. For example, I worked for an "Indian" couple one time. Blonde and blue, pale wife, husband a tribe member by marriage. They got all kinds of benefits and government contract opportunities. Just how much genetic drift will we accept before we say "not Indian"? That's a real question.

But in any case, in Oklahoma for my first 30-years I never met a single person even claiming Indian blood. You seem to have a hard time believing that. I can't even think of someone saying, "I know this Indian guy..."

Dad had cause to believe we had a black relative in the past. Am I black? I'd be laughed out of any given room if I claimed such. So, draw the line.

[–] JustPlainDave@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago

You're basing the entire native American population on your tiny sample size, you racist fuck. pull your head out your ass.