this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2026
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[–] houndeyes@toast.ooo 25 points 1 day ago (1 children)

get rid of some bad management.

Good luck. Like cockroaches, they'd probably survive a nuclear holocaust.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (6 children)

Is it because they turn bad once they become management? Or were they like that from the beginning?
Personally I think it's both, but mostly the latter.

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

It's a feedback loop.

Upper management can't tell what good work is, and thus whomever is the most shameless in talking themselves up wins, unless they royally screw up in a way that can't be missed. If you have any shred of humility or nuance about your work, you are almost certainly not management material.

I have met like 3 or 4 people that I actually had respect for in management roles, but overwhelmingly they were there solely on an overinflated sense of self importance rather than substance.

[–] Lyrl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Both. People who are promoted to management because they are good individual contributors are often lacking in management skills (they turn from something they are good at to something they are bad at), and people who crave and hard pursue management positions rarely have management skills (always bad).

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

That sounds extremely plausible. 👍

[–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Frankly, I think we all have a bad manager inside of us, and the problem is that being put in a manager position exposes you to humanity-draining incentives that feed the bad manager parts of you, until it defines you. Higher compensation and promotions for focusing on costs and not quality, and short-term gains rather than long-term stability.

If you're unusually self-aware and smart, and put effort into grounding yourself, you may counteract it, but most people probably just float through life and let those incentives define them and their choices.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

Interesting point.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It also attracts narcissistic people without empathy (and sadic people), a bit like the church attracts pedophiles. Not everyone is, but in the end it's too many (over 0).

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It also attracts narcissistic people

This has AFAIK actually been documented.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you have more information about that, I'll be all ears!

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

I wrote AFAIK, which means I don't have a source at hand, only memory of having seen the claim documented by research somewhere...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-justice-and-responsibility-league/200904/why-some-psychopaths-are-in-leadership-positions

It is well observed that psychopaths (a.k.a. sociopaths) are found both in prison and in managerial positions.

That comment is made by a PhD psychologistm and confirms it.

Feel free to investigate further, at least you now know there is something for sure.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 hours ago

Ah yeah, bank managers (AFAIK! or heard) is often people without empathy for example, guess some jobs attract some types of people.

[–] houndeyes@toast.ooo 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Both. Whether you're considering empathy or competency.

Increased power—in pay or in authority—may be followed by decreased empathy (they turn bad). Conversely, dark triad traits have been linked with success like promotion to management (they were bad already). The research on this side has been criticized, mainly for methodology. I think the underlying idea makes intuitive sense.

On the competency side, there's the Peter Principle, originally satirical but subsequently researched. Good employees are promoted to a position of incompetence (they turn bad, or rather, are promoted until they are no longer good). Or, they were incompetent and promoted anyway to get them out of the way (they were bad).

And the mechanisms are not mutually exclusive. E.g., a good employee is promoted, they are bad as a manager, then entrench as their new authority leads to less empathy.

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

I think they get promoted to management because they're bad.

They're not going to promote the guy who knows what he's doing, because they need him to keep working in his current role. The guy who slacks off, bosses people around, and gets chummy with the boss though? Perfect candidate for promotion.