this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2026
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[–] historicaldocuments@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I wish that picture had jumped up on the internet when I replied earlier; I'd have posted it then. It even has the right hammer. The "hammer" is the unlabeled part between the "Rear Notch Sight" and "Manual Safety" in the picture. I'll keep it simple because there're so many other people who know it better, and much better info out there.

The grip safety does what it says in the name: if you haven't compressed the grip safety, which can be accomplished by gripping the thing exactly like it looks like it's designed to be, then the trigger won't release the hammer and the firearm won't fire. It's wordier to explain than it is to show. To use a 1911, put ammo in the magazine, insert the magazine into the pistol, charge the weapon by pulling the slide back and releasing it. Pulling the slide back will cock the hammer. If you don't intend to fire it immediately then flip the manual safety up. Now's it's "cocked and locked" and can be safely holstered and carried. To fire from that position the grip safety has to be squeezed, the manual safety has to be moved down (like in the picture), and the trigger pulled. It sounds like a lot, but all the switches are right where your hands/fingers go if you happen to be John Moses Browning. I've read one internet anecdote of someone involved in an altercation and had the misfortune to get shot in the hand and couldn't return fire due to not being able to engage the grip safety. Take that for what it's worth. To anyone interested in buying their first firearm to use, I do not recommend a 1911 because there's a step in the manipulation where the safety has to be off with a cartridge chambered to load it.

[–] phtheven@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

Thanks! This makes a lot of sense. I didn't realise it was a moving part. In my mind i imagined it to be a passive stop that stops the recoil from sliding the juicy bit of your hand meat up into the hammer and slide situation at the exact moment that those parts are doing some sliding and hammering (or right after that moment i suppose).

You allude to these mechanisms being hard to reach for normal hands, is that correct? You reckon our old mate j-brown had some freaky fingers (like John Mayer's T H U M B), so he put things in weird places?

So if this weapon is THE iconic american sidearm, why is it not the standard police issue? Is the glock a safer weapon?

And why do you suppose it is such a popular weapon if it has the safety issues as you describe? Is it because it looks cool? Or is it simply some sort of patriotism?

[–] historicaldocuments@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

In my mind i imagined it to be a passive stop that stops the recoil from sliding the juicy bit of your hand meat up into the hammer and slide situation at the exact moment that those parts are doing some sliding and hammering (or right after that moment i suppose).

On a 1911 that same part does both. On other firearms it's just a grip safety. The colloquial term for getting your shooting hand caught by the slide is "slide bite." You'll see firearms with a "beaver tail" on the back to help prevent that. It's usually not a problem unless you have meaty hands, but some pistols are worse about it than others. Still others have interchangeable back parts of the grip with smaller or larger ones.

You allude to these mechanisms being hard to reach for normal hands, is that correct?

The designer was taller than most. The joke was intended as how he designed it around his own hand, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. People's hands sizes are all relative so it's hard to make sweeping statements. You can compare a 1911 against a Glock 20 Gen 4 here. Both of those are on the large side, but if you look at the stacked view you can see the grip angles are different. Some people have strong opinions about that, about which one "points" more naturally, etc. Either one can be trained to, so it's a matter of preference in my opinion.

And why do you suppose it is such a popular weapon if it has the safety issues as you describe? Is it because it looks cool? Or is it simply some sort of patriotism?

Probably not a lot of people think that's a safety issue. I just said that in my opinion it wouldn't make a good first pistol and used that as the one reason I mentioned. There are others out there with decockers (lowers the hammer safely without removing the manual safety), no manual safety, striker fired vs hammer fired, decocker only, single action only with no safety or decocker (Tokarevs are like that). If someone forced me to teach someone how to shoot I would just start with something other than a 1911. Probably a 22 revolver.

As for the rest, I think it looks cool AND it's got a lot of patriotism associated with it. It's a design that's over 100 years old now, and was the service pistol for the US through two world wars. They're reliable when clean and accurate. You can get custom handmade ones if you feel like it and hate having spare money. I'm sure a lot of people have more general reasons and some might have more personal reasons. We're at a stage now where service 1911s are being passed from generation to generation (I think you could buy yours from the government at one point). There's just a lot of history there the same as with old cars.

So if this weapon is THE iconic american sidearm, why is it not the standard police issue? Is the glock a safer weapon?

Going to be some subjectivity here: ammo capacity is probably the main driver. A 1911 with standard magazines holds seven or eight rounds of 45ACP while a Glock 17 hit the market with 17 rounds of 9mm Parabellum. The other driver is probably going to be weight. Police have to carry them all day, and a full sized 1911 is almost a pound heavier than a Glock 17 when they're fully loaded. Opinions and training methods change through the years, and hollowpoint construction got very good at some point so a lot of police forces in the US moved back around to 9mm after trying a few things. Try this video, for example as to rationale surrounding the Miami Dade shootout. Realistically the science says that shot placement (i.e. hitting the target) matters more than caliber or what firearm a projectile came from, and 9mm is sufficient to meet what the FBI thinks is a good standard for projectiles while being easier to control and with less recoil (see "shot placement" above) than other calibers. You'll find plenty of anecdotes that argue that 9mm has failed to stop people in the past who are on mind altering substances and set on hurting people, and arguments for stronger cartridges to give more lethality with a single shot. There are a lot of opinions and data to work with, and a lot of options on the market. You won't find a "right" answer that fits every case.

Is the glock a safer weapon?

Again, subjectivity: anything's a danger if the person using it isn't being safe. The manner of arms is completely different between them. Glocks have internal safeties, but no manual safety switch, so it's unlikely to go off if dropped, but if you keep your finger inside the trigger guard while holstering you're likely to discharge it, maybe into your leg. There's video of that happening floating around. A 1911 has that manual switch, so if you're rigorous about that it should also be good to go. Youtuber Garand Thumb did a drop test of several pistols, and some of the specialty competition guns that have light-as-possible triggers fired when dropped. People have made a show out of abusing Glocks and them still working. They're just well thought out and well implemented. All things considered the training and care of the user is going to matter most. That said, the Glock has decades of design, manufacturing improvements, rust prevention treatments, training styles, and metallurgy over the 1911. Yes modern 1911s capture a lot of that, but there's a reason the 1911 isn't normally issued these days.

[–] phtheven@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

First of all: Hell yeah dude.

Final question because you're way more interesting than wikipedia. Is it called the 1911 because it was released in 1911? And do you say it like the year? Nineteen-eleven?

[–] historicaldocuments@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I had to fall back to wikipedia, but it dates back to the late 1800s. It was adopted in "nineteen eleven" as the M1911.

If you like that kind of thing, then you'd probably like the youtube channel Forgotten Weapons where the guy covers some very rare historical firearms with the occasional diversion such as his participation in Finnish Brutality shooting competitions. It's a little eye opening the combination of physical fitness and marksmanship that goes into that sort of thing these days. There's no telling what various militaries have under their belt.

[–] phtheven@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

I'll give it a watch, everything the Finns get up to is dope.

[–] Riverview_Legal@lemmy.ca 3 points 12 hours ago

40,000 years in the future The Colt 1911 will be the weapon of choice for those who serve the Emperor.

Alt text: An image of Colt 1911 from Rouge Trader/early Warhammer 40k. The Colt 1911 is called a Stub Gun.