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How come you won't list a viable national-level third party?
Like, legitimately, you play this shell game where you say "Vote third party" or "Don't vote" (and you do say don't vote, let's not play coy), won't list any third parties to vote, and won't bother compromising if things don't go your way. It's mental gymnastics so you can avoid any culpability if things go poorly. Fucking just clap yourself on the back right now, you can be so happy that you didn't contribute to "blue fascism" or whatever the cultspeak is.
Good on you for hating herd mentality, along with fucking everyone else, you George Carlin-quoting individual you. Your unique snowflake melts the same as everyone else's.
Seriously, how do you plan to convert most of the Democratic voters to your mythical third party if Newsom (or anyone else not good enough for you) is the nominee? Because you cannot convert enough nonvoters to do that, you have to syphon those voters from the Democratic or Republican parties, and most of those Republicans aren't voting for your shit on a macro-level. Sorry, the political scientist in me just doesn't fucking believe in that one. If you aren't willing to conform to them, then why the absolute fuck would they be willing to conform to you?
I don’t care about what’s viable anymore.
If people have to constantly betray their values for politics, then what good is any of this?
Voting for status quo gets you… surprise! More status quo.
Getting out and participating in primaries is good. I make it a point to primary people with good platforms. I want to see more DSA-backed candidates end up on the Dem ticket. But if you’re being overwhelmed by shit people with shit votes, then what?
Populations have risen up and overturned their governments for far less. Perhaps it needs to head in that direction. Vulnerable groups have been suffering all along. Playing the same game just continues their suffering. Nothing gets done until the more privileged are suffering as well.
Trump is just a manifestation of what this country actually is. He’s like the Joker. Centrist dem voters are just as complicit for his rise to power.
Then you're not actually an ally, you're just another accelerationist.
Fucking there you go, buddy. Are we going to finally admit that you just want a violent revolution? Good job, if true.
Now, I do have to point out that voting third party and not voting are, indirectly, voting for the status quo, so you did sort of box yourself in with that zingy one-liner. Thanks for the agreement, though.
Anyway, surely you realize that vulnerable groups suffer the most in a revolution, right? So, if you don't really have them on board, then you are condemning many of them to death. Who is going to join you? Obviously, not liberals, since you refuse to negotiate with them. So... Uh... Do you think there's enough leftists to make up for that deficit? Because I fucking don't. I have trouble getting people I know in real life to understand that capitalism is the cause of most or all of their problems. But, if you can, let me know! I'll be there!
Where did I mention violence? People aren’t even willing to do a general strike, or a mass movement to reject all non-essential consumer spending, refusing to pay bills, rent, etc en masse. A violent revolution would never happen here unless people were actually starving to death.
Listen, if centrists want people to vote blue, or vote at all, then stop dismissing things like the enthusiasm gap, treating the left like a monolith, and trying to move towards economic populism while dismissing human rights under the framing of “cultural war” issues. I don’t mind if someone STFU about their position on things like trans issues and focusing on the economy, but actively coming out and saying trans issues are the problem is a whole other level of rejecting an increasingly influential and growing left wing base of potential voters.
That’s just sour grapes about failing to energize the voting base. Scapegoating.
Guys like Talarico trying to backpedal to woo conservative voters - that isn’t winning you votes, that’s just making you look weak, while losing more support than you’re gaining.
The Dem establishment is far too quick to assume left-wing policies like social justice are unpolular amongst the voting base. If the premise is that establishment Dems and independents care about the economy more than anything else, then there’s no harm in championing social justice. You’re retaining all of your potential voting base.
Establishment Centrist voters would be doing the same thing if DSA backed candidates took over the Dem leadership. They’d be refusing to vote for progressives, or at least threatening to do so. And they’d be getting equally pissed if you just tell them to suck it up and vote for the progressive candidate.
Watch and learn from any of the close upcoming races where actual progressives are running for office. Let’s see how many establishment blue line zealots cross the aisle. Or just refuse to vote at all.
It is truly sad that you believe these things. Especially because your logic explicitly makes coalition building impossible, and thus a revolution equally as impossible.
How the fuck do you expect to build a revolution when you can't make a concession or work with people you disagree with?
You are the definition of perfect being the enemy of good enough. I get that you want to save everyone right now. Cool. Great. Uh, one problem: FUCKING HOW??? You live in a fucking fairy tale if you think you can do these things. Your ideals kill the people you think you are standing up for, and it is shitty behaviors.
You aren't doing what you do to save queer people. You're not doing what you do to save minorities. You're not doing this for any noble reason.
You are doing this so that YOU DON'T HAVE TO FEEL BAD. You are doing it because the people that might die from your lack of doing anything won't weigh on your shoulders. And to that, I say, you should feel more of the remorse than those that tried to make things better. Because they tried.
But, you won't. The type of person who thinks voting third party or not voting will save people are the exact type of people who will say "It wasn't my fault." when people die, because they tried one thing that did jackshit.
You can have good and push for better a shitton easier than having perfect from the beginning.
The typical American voter bitches about injustice, while they continue to support injustice.
They fret about the children while eating açaí bowls and consuming cheap goods made with child slave labor.
They feel bad for exploited third-world people while booking luxury cruises to “safe,” all-inclusive resorts that exploit third world workers and benefit the rich.
They hate CEOs while participating in blantant consumerism.
They scream about animal welfare while consuming animal products three times a day.
They wax about social justice as long as it’s convenient for them to do so, and their political team wins by throwing minorities under the bus, or making them a secondary priority.
The two core values of the typical American voter are money and immediate gratification. In the words of that Skeletor-looking mf James Carville: “It’s duh economee, stoopid.”
Social justice and progressivism as long as I don’t have to personally sacrifice anything.
Morals that cease when my wallet shrinks, when I’m inconvenienced, or when the consumer happiness index shrinks. Social justice that becomes negotiable to stop orange man - even though orange man is just a reflection, a grotesque parody of the hypocritical, racist, queerphobic, materialistic, first-world lust of America. People hate when their inconsistencies are laid bare for all to see. They want to shut it back in the closet, rather than take five minutes for critical self-reflection.
Save your pointless lecture for someone else.
Talk to a therapist, buddy. And if you can't afford that, talk to a real person. If everyone was like you, we'd still be exactly where we are. Do not kid yourself and grandstand on morals when you would sacrifice the people you pretend to care about.
You are not better than anyone else. Stop pretending you are.
Never said I was better than anyone else. Although I try to be better than average on a daily basis.
But the problem lies in the fact that people want to elected leaders alone to make the change for them, while having no involvement in that change other than a vote.
The elected leaders we have are nothing but a reflection of who we are.
The system is a refection of our habits.
Apathy doesn’t accomplish anything. Action does. Action other than no kings protests and bitching online. Action than voting for the same capitalist politicians who only care about attaining power and increasing their wealth.
You want things like climate change action? Animals rights? Become the change agent yourself by looking at your daily consumption habits.
What everyone has been doing doesn’t work.
Also, you don’t have to be above moral reproach to make a moral criticism of society. I could be a murderer and still speak the truth. If no one wants to hear it, 🤷♂️
Then why are you currently bitching online and being apathetic?
I’m not just doing that. You know nothing of my life or habits.
You realize I can make the same assumption about you? I would hope you’re doing something constructive about addressing your own habits of consumption.
Are you vegan? That’s one change everyone can make that serves the planet and works towards of the elimination of exploitation of sentient beings for profit. It’s also a great thing for the planet. If not, why not?
Do you reject giving money to Amazon, Target, driver delivery services? Do you try to cut back your consumption of unnecessary consumer goods to a bare minimum, always aiming to do better all the time? If not, why is that?